-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
T/C New Englander 12 Ga Questions
- Thread starter Old Sarge
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Unless your barrel has screw in chokes, it Is not choked.
I shoot 95 grs. of 2f, two 12 ga. fiber wads, 11/4 oz. of # 4 copper plated shot, and a thin overshot wad with a modified choke for pheasants.
Or, a paper cartridge with 90 grains of 2f. a nitro card and 11/4 oz. of #4s.and a modified choke.
With a rifled choke in, I experimented with a patched .69 cal ball and a T/C hunter peep sight shooting about 100 grs of 2f for Elk. I never could get enough accurracy and range to make it worthwhile in light of the recoil.
With cylinder bore drop the powder to 70-80 grains to get a denser pattern usually.
For convenience, I intstalled a T/C nipple for musket caps because they are easier to get off the nipple when moving to another hunt site by vehicle and are easier for my arthritic fingers handle than 11's.
Call or write T/C for a manual.
TX in the manual I have is 603-332-2333.
They have a website also.
I shoot 95 grs. of 2f, two 12 ga. fiber wads, 11/4 oz. of # 4 copper plated shot, and a thin overshot wad with a modified choke for pheasants.
Or, a paper cartridge with 90 grains of 2f. a nitro card and 11/4 oz. of #4s.and a modified choke.
With a rifled choke in, I experimented with a patched .69 cal ball and a T/C hunter peep sight shooting about 100 grs of 2f for Elk. I never could get enough accurracy and range to make it worthwhile in light of the recoil.
With cylinder bore drop the powder to 70-80 grains to get a denser pattern usually.
For convenience, I intstalled a T/C nipple for musket caps because they are easier to get off the nipple when moving to another hunt site by vehicle and are easier for my arthritic fingers handle than 11's.
Call or write T/C for a manual.
TX in the manual I have is 603-332-2333.
They have a website also.
paulvallandigham
Passed On
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 17,538
- Reaction score
- 80
Measure the bore of the barrel with calipers to know for sure what you have. Then you can order the right diameter wads. I use 12 gauge wads from circle fly, but I obtain them from whatever supplier is handy.
MY 12ga. is a cylinder bore, and I use a load I got from an article in The American Rifleman magazine, repulishing an article printed by its predeceassor publication 100 years before. It was a " Favorite 50 yard load " of Commercial Duck Hunters on the Illinois river, back when that was legal.
2 3/4 drams of FFg powder( 76 Grains), and 1 1/4 oz. of #5 shot. I was using a standard OP wad, followed by a lubed( moosemilk) cushion wad made of celotex, 1/2" thick, an OS card, the load of shot and another OS card to hold the shot in the barrel. I get dense enough patterns to cleanly kill pheasants at a measured 33 yards.
I occasionally get a cushion wad following the shot, and opening a hole in the pattern. I am trying Jim Rackham's recommendation to use ONLY OS CARDs as wads. 4 OS card over the powder, the load of shot, and 2 OS card on top of the shot to hold them in. His pictures clearly indicate that this combination eliminates the " donut hole " patterns, and gives nice, even shot distribution within the pattern.
For Denser patterns, I am trying paper shot cups, and Britsmoothy has advised how to make them, and got much better patterns from his cylinder bore gun. I believe its possible to get Modified patterns out of my Cylinder Bore gun, using the cups, and that can add another 10 yards to the effective range of the shot, provided you use heavy enough shot.
I hope that helps.
MY 12ga. is a cylinder bore, and I use a load I got from an article in The American Rifleman magazine, repulishing an article printed by its predeceassor publication 100 years before. It was a " Favorite 50 yard load " of Commercial Duck Hunters on the Illinois river, back when that was legal.
2 3/4 drams of FFg powder( 76 Grains), and 1 1/4 oz. of #5 shot. I was using a standard OP wad, followed by a lubed( moosemilk) cushion wad made of celotex, 1/2" thick, an OS card, the load of shot and another OS card to hold the shot in the barrel. I get dense enough patterns to cleanly kill pheasants at a measured 33 yards.
I occasionally get a cushion wad following the shot, and opening a hole in the pattern. I am trying Jim Rackham's recommendation to use ONLY OS CARDs as wads. 4 OS card over the powder, the load of shot, and 2 OS card on top of the shot to hold them in. His pictures clearly indicate that this combination eliminates the " donut hole " patterns, and gives nice, even shot distribution within the pattern.
For Denser patterns, I am trying paper shot cups, and Britsmoothy has advised how to make them, and got much better patterns from his cylinder bore gun. I believe its possible to get Modified patterns out of my Cylinder Bore gun, using the cups, and that can add another 10 yards to the effective range of the shot, provided you use heavy enough shot.
I hope that helps.
I have the older 12 gauge straight bore no choke. I found that making paper shot cups out of index card will tighten up your pattern. Just shooting shot straight out of the smooth bore didn't give me any decent results no matter what load. So if you go with a straight bore try 1fg. I found it kept patterns tighter. The rest is trial and error, but my gun shoots best with between 1/2 and 3/4 oz of shot 1/2 cushion wad and two of shot cards, the shot load and one over shot card with 70 to 80 grains of 1Fg. Finding the right load for one size of shot doesn't mean it's a good load for a different size of shot. So,keep notes on you loads so you don't forget them. I've never shot RB out of it, so I don't know.
I guess if it is a cylinder bore a patched RB should shoot well if I get the right thickness of patch. Thanks for the advice on loads. Gotta try these. I want to "whack" a few fox squirrels this fall. Thanks agan. Keep the info coming. Tom
bigbore442001
50 Cal.
Many moons ago I worked at a summer camp in New Hampshire that wasn't too far from the TC factory in Rochester. I made it a habit to frequent the place on my time off and got to know a number of the people working there. I asked about shooting roundballs out of the TC New Englander and the guys at the counter commented that the gun was never built for shooting roundballs. One man showed me a customer's gun coming in for a repair. The stock was cracked at the tang and he commented that it was from shooting patched balls. The gun was designed for shot loads.
So although intriguing, I never shot a round ball out of my TC smoothbore.
So although intriguing, I never shot a round ball out of my TC smoothbore.
paulvallandigham
Passed On
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 17,538
- Reaction score
- 80
I was wondering what the rest of the story is? Did the guy try to shoot more than 1 PRB out of that smoothie? How loose was that tang in the mortise before he fired the gun? Was the tang even cracked before he fired a PRB? What powder was he using, and how much?
I once met a man who complained about the recoil of a T/C " Hawken" rifle, in .50 caliber, shooting Maxie Balls, over 150 grains of 3Fg powder! Of course, he was trying to put the buttstock to his shoulder pocket, as he would shoot a shotgun! instead of moving the stock out onto his arm. He stood 6'6" tall, and weighed about 240 lbs. There was not an ounce of fat on the guy. I think its a credit to T/C that the gunstock did not splinter on him, or the barrel give way, with those loads.
Often, the load of shot people choose weighs much more than any RB they might be able to shoot out of a smoothbore barrel.
For instance, my 20 ga. fowler handles RBs that weigh 325 grains, but that is only 3/4 oz. No one would think twice about shooting 1 oz, and even heavier loads of shot out of the gun! And the friction on the barrel of all those pellets is far greater than what is experienced by a lubed cloth patch around a RB.
I believe the chamber pressure of shooting shot is going to be greater than shooting any PRB, assuming the weight of the two projectiles is similar. Not having pressure testing equipment, I can't prove that, but the laws of Science, and what is already known about the coefficients of friction support my suspicions.
I once met a man who complained about the recoil of a T/C " Hawken" rifle, in .50 caliber, shooting Maxie Balls, over 150 grains of 3Fg powder! Of course, he was trying to put the buttstock to his shoulder pocket, as he would shoot a shotgun! instead of moving the stock out onto his arm. He stood 6'6" tall, and weighed about 240 lbs. There was not an ounce of fat on the guy. I think its a credit to T/C that the gunstock did not splinter on him, or the barrel give way, with those loads.
Often, the load of shot people choose weighs much more than any RB they might be able to shoot out of a smoothbore barrel.
For instance, my 20 ga. fowler handles RBs that weigh 325 grains, but that is only 3/4 oz. No one would think twice about shooting 1 oz, and even heavier loads of shot out of the gun! And the friction on the barrel of all those pellets is far greater than what is experienced by a lubed cloth patch around a RB.
I believe the chamber pressure of shooting shot is going to be greater than shooting any PRB, assuming the weight of the two projectiles is similar. Not having pressure testing equipment, I can't prove that, but the laws of Science, and what is already known about the coefficients of friction support my suspicions.
I agree with you. I'm figuring the guy was using a very heavy load behind that RB. I too, have seen people shoot ridiculously heavy loads in ML's trying to achieve centerfire energy. I would like to know the whole story. I feel a patched RB in a cylinder bore should be no problem. What do you think?
Rebel
Cannon
No problem at all as long as you 1) seat the ball all the way down on the powder and 2) don't use EXCESSIVE amounts of powder.
One of my favorite loads for the New Englander is 70 gr. Fg, one 12ga felt (ox-yoke wonder) wad, 1 oz. 7 ½ lead shot with an overshot card. Excellent patterns and a good clay bird breaker.
I see no reason to not shoot round balls in this gun. One of my best performers has been 80 gr FFg, two felt wads, a .715 round ball (no patch) and a felt wad on top.
I see no reason to not shoot round balls in this gun. One of my best performers has been 80 gr FFg, two felt wads, a .715 round ball (no patch) and a felt wad on top.
