static spark

[Stumpkiller]

Sorry to get slightly off topic, but the danger to black powder from static is with the fine black powder dust particles that float in the air. That is what causes the explosions at the gun powder plants. The same thing can happen at sawmills with the fine sawdust particles in the air.

I'd buy into that.

I used to work at a firm that made photographic emulsions. We used little teeny (something like 5 microns dia.) PMMA glass beads to make the emulsion flow better. They were just little glass beads, but small enough to become an airborn dust cloud if disturbed. We had to keep them in a specially designed $1M explosion proof shed because as a dust they were highly explosive. The condition is called a "dust explosion" and used to destroy grain and coal elevators (and workers), also.

 

[Rod Lassey]

Yeah, if you've never seen a dust explosion, they can be pretty spectactular. If you've got a high old building or windmill tower, and no neighbors try this for fun--take a 5 lb. bag of flour, stick a soaked wick on the top of the bag (wick has to maintain flame during the drop), and throw it to the ground. When the bag breaks on impact-- WHOOMPH!

Never done it myself, but have seen it done. The things we do out here in ND for kicks, eh?

As far as the lightning, as a rancher who has seen plenty of lightning killed cattle, some are pretty burnt, and some aren't--it really varies. By the way, lightning is the number one cause of range fires out here.

Rod

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Graf BP comes shipped in plastic 1 lb containers, no problemo there.

 

[JNG]

Makes you wonder why folks spend all those bucks for brass drop tubes, when all you need is 2 feet of plastic tube and a 2x4.

Joe

 

[roundball]

Makes you wonder why folks spend all those bucks for brass drop tubes, when all you need is 2 feet of plastic tube and a 2x4.
Joe

'cause they didn't have plastic tubes back then, just brass :grin:

 

[omarick1948]

I know BP uses metal containers not plastic due to the dangers of a static spark. Is there a polymer container the size of a test tube (100 grains) that can hold BP with out a danger of an setoff? If not, what can be used to preload 4 or 5 shots for hunting?

Joe

"FOUR OR FIVE SHOTS ARE EASY TO BORN...WITH A SMALL VESTLE CALLED A POWDER HORN"...... :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Well, he's looking for "individually wrapped" shots. ;-)

I use containers I bought at a backpacking store (the Eureka factory store) and they will hold up to 120 grains. Plenty for my 85 gr shots.

These were sold as salt, pepper and pill containers (they are Nalgene sample bottles) and are perfect with little attached watertight lids. I toss seven in a belt pouch along with a pre-loaded ball block of patched round balls, two cap dispensers and a little pouch with a spare nipple, nipple pick, jag and ball puller and I'm set for anything whan I hunt with my cap=lock during regular season.

 

[bpbrs]

Saw dust is made of wood, and does act as a resistor. It will build up heat from static electricity, and being dust, it will burn quickly. That is the cause of those explosions, really just a rapid burning of wood particles in an oxygen rich environment. Its like saying Oxygen will explode. Yes, Oxygen does explode, if under pressure and heated sufficiently to rupture the container its in so that all the oxygen released is heated to its flashpoint. But, without the pressure, oxygen does not " explode".

There are three main components to black Powder. Present in all air will be water, and trace elements. Static electricity has more of a chance of burning that plastic bottle, than it does the powder in it. Glass bottles present a problem because of glass' ability to bend and focus light to make heat. ( Refraction) That is why powder is stored and shipped in cans( cheap, but very strong) or plastic ( cheaper). ut the plastic bottles will be opaque to keep light from being bent and focused to cause heat.

Oxygen supports combustion, without a fuel & heat source oxygen will do nothing if contained and heated other than blow through the relief valve or rupture disc.

If you are heating a tank of O2 and it is in a fire & it blows it will speed the combustion rate up.

I worked with oxygen equipment in aircraft and breathing liquid 02, welding 02 all pumped from gasseous to liquid and vs versa.

We'd take a unlit cigarett drop it in the liquid 02. a few seconds in the liquid we'd pop it back in our pack.
After returning to the shop, we had to wait 1/2 hour before smoking or being around an flame or spark/heat source. Lest our clothing would ignite and we'd go up in a big POOF!

We'd either take the cigarett and give it to a person who bum`d a smoke or lay it on the ground, light the end , the tabacco would burn like a fuse and the filter would take off like a mini rocket.
If I remember correctly;
1 cup of liquid oxygen when warmed expands to 862 cups of gas.

Friction plays more of a roll in grain elevator explosions and dry goods equipment fires than gets the credit.

 

[HSstriker]

can't you take a large wreck and weld 1end closed NVM probably to dangerous

 

[Dinkyjean]

TOTALLY new here, but can I ask a question on this subject? If you have a metal tube, such as copper, steel, etc, can you line it with something like melted wax, then after it cools, slip ends on it and use it for a BP container? The wax would prevent any chance of an electric shock or spark, and the case would be hard enough its not going to crush or pop open if dropped or stepped on, and if done right, it would be water tight. Or would the wax (like red cheese wax, parafin wax or candle wax)be to moist for BP? Just curious. Ya never know if ya don't ask.

 

[Bill Hall]

Hi Dink. Appearantly, it's impossible to ignite blackpower with a static spark. There is a "read only" thread going over this same subject in the Shooting Accessories section, just above the General Muzzleloading Section. If you're interested, you can read up on the how's and why's of why it can't happen.

As far as using wax for a powder container liner, I don't think it's a good idea. The powder would probably imbed itself into the wax, making that last little bit of powder impossible to get out. It might even clump up in there. You want a container that has smooth sides so the powder will flow freely, that's why modern one pound cans are made of either metal or plastic. Hope this helps, Bill.

 

[Dinkyjean]

Thanks...I never thought of that. Good point. I will stick with what works!

I'll go check out the other thread...I may have red it already...I don't recall, I have been reading so much on here.

 

[token tory]

Dixie (among others) makes "loading tubes" of a soft plastic which holds a measured powder charge & uses the ball itself as a stopper.
They are sold by caliber & come in bags of 50 IIRC.

To use you just squeeze the ball out of the end & tip to empty a single charge of powder into the gun. They are even color-coded by caliber so you don't mix them up.

 

[paulvallandigham]

You are going to want a Real POWDER HORN, Dink, eventually, so don't waste money on some kind of pipe. The sell altered caps for powder cans and bottles that have a modern cartridge soldered to the cap, with the bottom of the casing cut off, to form a pouring spout , so you can pour powder from the bottle or can into your powder measure, then set aside and Cap the spout, ( one of those slip over erasers for pencils seems to fit most .30 caliber cartridge necks, but a plug made of cork, or wood is also commonly seen)[Hint: that is what those old pencil stubs can be used for after you can't hold them to write with anymore]

And then pour the powder from the measure into the barrel of your gun.

 

[token tory]

To clarify my post (yet again). :stir:

I'm not suggesting that you do not use some kind of safe storage, dispensation, & measuring system. To do so would be doing you no favors at all.

I am suggesting that you use either a horn or flask, and an accurate measure of some kind (as I do) to fill the tubes safely & accurately.

My post was in response to the OP's question, not a treatise on ML reloading equipment & technique.

 

[paulvallandigham]

When those tubes first came on the market, a couple of members bought them, and brought them to the club range. It was a late fall shoot, cold, and they fumbled with the tubes. More powder hit the ground than got down the barrel. They also managed to squirt out the balls and lose them in the grass, than catch them. I am sure this was just a function of these things being new, and the guys not having any idea what to expect with the tubes. But, they gave up using them, and we only rarely saw some Newbie show up with them after that. Even the new members stopped using them after gaining some experience.

I have made by own " cartridges" to hold powder and ball, and don't have any trouble with my own, so I don't understand why these men were having trouble with this product. I did see one man struggling to open the lid on one to get the percussion cap inside Out to use, and he said that the plastic cap was much easier to open and close at home, than out in the cold weather. He didn't clarify for me if he thought the problem was due to his cold fingers, or to the container being more difficult to open.

All I know is that the use of those tubes ended almost before they started, at my club.

I have my own share of "Stuff" I have bought foolishly over the years- and have managed to get rid of some of it at blanket shoots, usually by putting some cash with the item to "boot". :redface:

If I can save members here some money on what they buy, I am going to try. Sorry to ruffle your feathers. :bow: :thumbsup:

 

[ohio ramrod]

For hunting purposes I use the plastic tubes that horse worm medicine comes in. They fit the pocket of the cartharts, have a flange on one end for easy graping and plug well with a tapered dowel rod.They are approximately 3/8 inch in diameter and allow for quick spill free loading.

 

[longcruise]

All I know is that the use of those tubes ended almost before they started, at my club.

They are not supposed to be for range use. It's a hunting item. I have some in both .50 and .54 cal in the shooting box. They have always worked flawlessly for me and others that hunt with me. Have not used them for years, but for the hunter who wants to go light and might want to have an additioal shot or three available right now, they are excellent.

 

[token tory]

Not a problem, as you aren't.

I just answered the OP's question. He can make his own decisions.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Whether static electricity can generate enough heat to ignite black powder???? Of course it can. I have seen static eletric burn holes through playing cards and I have seen the melted glass that can be caused by static.

Now while the normal static electric from walking across a carpet in winter may not generate that kind of static, keep in mind that a lightning bolt is also static electricity. Static electricity, like any other electric comes in small and large quantities. Now, I'm not sure that your powder container ever stands the same risk of being set off as fastening a can of powder to the top of a lightning rod. I just find the statement that it can't happen to be an over generalization that is most certainly untrue. If it were totally impossible under all circumstances,the electric ignition muzzleloader couldn't possibly fire.