stainless VS blued barrels

[Little Wattsy]

Is there enough real merit in the superior qualities of stainless steel to warent an additional $75 to $100?

Thoughts on thumbhole stocks?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Is there enough real merit in the superior qualities of stainless steel to warent an additional $75 to $100?

Thoughts on thumbhole stocks?

I can't imagine a side lock gun with a thumbhole stock. You must be thinking of one of those unspeakable aberrations that we never discuss here--not even in hushed tones. :nono: You know--the ugly junkers with stainless steel metal bits and black plastic stocks. YUCKKKKK!!!! Next you'll be wanting to load from the breech....Horror of horrors!! :rotf:

 

[Rebel]

Not sure if you have seen the replies to some of your other posts, but we DON'T talk about sinlines here, just Traditional Styled guns.

 

[Little Wattsy]

sorry, no offense was inquireing about the lyman deer stalker.
im only two weeks new into the concept will buy in the next week or two and want to lern as much as possible....the ppl on this form seem VERY knowledgable and educated on the toppic "black powder"

 

[Old40Rod]

Welcome, Wattsy. Don't be afraid to ask questions... the collective knowledge here about BP weapons (to which I contribute very little) is incredible. Whichever way you go, have fun with it. The Deerstalker is a nice little rifle.

 

[BrownBear]

I live right on the coast, with no shortage of salt air to go with 120+ inches of rain a year. I've got lots of stainless guns as a result, but truthfully they have little or no advantage over my blued guns. They rust, just more slowly. You have to clean them just as thoroughly too.

None of my muzzleloaders are stainless, but in many years of using them in this climate, I've never had a rust problem. It's never occured to me to get one in stainless. I'm big on stalking close for my shots, and somehow the stainless really seems to rub against that in my mind.

I will say one thing interesting. Browned finish on guns is more durable than blue, and easier to care for by far. Bluing wears thin pretty fast with the rough handling and super cleaning I have to do. Could be that I'm not noticing any rust because they exterior is already rusted, but you'd think I would notice a difference in the bores at least. None at all.

 

[Rancocas]

ALL of my muzzleloader barrels are "browned". I even browned a modern shotgun barrel, and also an old British Enfield .303 rifle, when I refinished them.

 

[MSW]

since you're gonna clean it after you shoot (right??!!) i don't see any substantial advantage to a stainless steel barrel, so spend the extra money on a nicer grade of wood.

since you asked, i think a sidelock with a thumbhole would look pretty silly, but if that's what makes you happy, and you don't mind being made the butt of numerous bad jokes, then by all means go for it...

(two $%^&- line shooters walked into a bar, but the rockbanger saw the bar and ducked under it... )

 

[Stumpkiller]

Welcome Wattsy.

I've only owned two firearms of any description with stainless barrels - a Mini 14 and a Redhawk, both Rugers. Did not find any advantage for accuracy or cleaning. Never had a m/l in stainless as I've always stuck to traditional styled sidelocks.

Thumbhole stock? If you look at where your hand actually touches it makes very little difference. I have .223 Contender carbine (pistol grip stock) and a FN-FAL styled Choate stuck on my 11-87 12 ga. rifled slug semi. For the Contender it just gives a little different grip but makes no real difference. Bench rest shooters claim it gives better trigger control but these guys are eeeking out 0.001" differences in group size and try everything. On the 11-87 it helps control muzzle climb in combination with a very straight butt/cheek rest.

If you're going to rattle off a fast five shot burst with the muzzleloader it may help. ;-)

If I wanted a "space gun" I'd use space age cartridges, too. My muzzleloading is a link with history.

 

[Little Wattsy]

im getting the picture but I just thought MAYBEEEEE the thumbhole might privide more strength during the loading process of pushing straight down on the gun. Getting the feeling that it is negligable :grin:

Does a barrel comming browned VS blued a brand choice or can it be requested on any given gun?

 

[Jumpshot]

im getting the picture but I just thought MAYBEEEEE the thumbhole might privide more strength during the loading process of pushing straight down on the gun.

I'm having a real hard time visualizing what you mean by that.

 

[Jumpshot]

Are you asking if a regular stock will break at the wrist when loading it? If so, I've never heard of that happening, unless the stock was already damaged (cracked) in the first place.

 

[BrownBear]

I probably shouldn't have brought up the brown vs blue at this point in your experience, but did so anyway to point out that stainless isnt' all it's cracked up to be, nor is bluing.

I'm not aware of any factory guns being browned these days. They're all blue or stainless.

But after making my own from kits and browning those (mostly cuzz it's easier to do a good job and I like the looks better than blue), I had the chance to try them in our wet and salt. Now I'm sold. In my eyes, the biggest problem with stainless is that you can't brown it later.

I'm in the process of refinishing a Traditions Crockett 32 cal with browning right now, and before winter is over I'm going to do the same to a factory Lyman GPR 54. It cost around $10 for a bottle of LMF browning solution if I recall correctly and that's enough to do 3 or 4 guns. When it's so cheap and easy while working better, I figure "Why not?"

 

[Stumpkiller]

I offers more reenforcement at the wrist. Never had one break from loading, though. If it loads THAT hard there's more afoot than a stock would help. I'm too lazy to carry a mallet . . . or a short starter usually. ;-)

Browned vs. blued - usually it will be one or the other from a given manufacturer. In the white - you finish the metal as you like, or leave it unfinished to naturally age. Custom guns - anything goes. There are many different types of color/finish/durability alternatives within either of those finishes, also. (i.e.: acid blue, rust blue, charcoal blue, etc., etc.)

 

[Jumpshot]

If you're looking for a factory gun, Pedersoli makes several browned models.

 

[BrownBear]

You're right. I'd forgotten about Pedersoli. Just more bux than I thought a newcomer might want to spend.

 

[paulvallandigham]

When you load any gun, you should be using a " hand-over-hand" technique, grabbing the rod no more than about 8 inches from the muzzle. NEVER drive the PRB down by pushing or pulling on the end of the rod, as that places your hand in line with the barrel. If you should have a cook-off, ie. a powder charge ignited by an ember left burning in the barrel when you put your next load down the barrel, the force will drive that rod right through your hand, or even take part of it off. In loading, turn your palms outward, thumbs down, and only grab the rod with your fingers, " monkey grip " style. That technique will save your fingers if you have a cook-off. The PRB should be firm going down the barrel, but not so tight that you need a mallet. You do need to clean between shots with most guns, however.

 

[Little Wattsy]

THis helps and awnsers the question (no thumbhole) not necessairily for fear of being laughed at :blah: but seriously at this point I have NO referance as to how hard it is to cram a ball or conical down the barrel; cant wait to do it but havnt done er yet.

 

[Zonie]

Wattsy:
As to how hard it is to load a patched ball, with the possible exception of those folks who have a special "coned" muzzle (not available from a modern factory), most of us use a "short starter" and a ramrod.

After pouring the powder down the bore most place a lubricated cloth patch on the muzzle and then place the roundball on that, starting it into the bore with just thumb pressure.
This doesn't begin to actually get the patched ball into the bore so a stouter tool us often used. This is the "short starter". It looks like a 2 or 2 1/2 inch diameter wooden ball with a short 3/8 diameter dowel sticking out one side and a longer 3/8 diameter dowel sticking out the other side.
Placing the short dowel on the ball, a stout hit with the palm of the hand will start the patch and ball into the bore. This is the heaviest pressure needed in the whole process.
Next, placing the long dowel on the ball a medium push is required to get the ball down the bore about 3 inches.
After starting the patched ball, the ramrod is next used to push the combination down to rest on top of the powder charge. This only requires a push of about 1 to 2 pounds of force on all of my guns.

After several shots, the fouling in the bore may cause a force of up to 5 pounds to be needed but most folks will wipe the bore with a damp cleaning patch to remove the fouling and make loading the next rounds easier.

Hope this gives you an idea of how much force is needed and why a thumbhole stock is not.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Zonie :
That was a VERY well written explanaition! Helps a ton; THANK YOU!

Its oft times hard to explain a physical act with words, IE: much easier to SHOW then tell.