nwtradegun
50 Cal.
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where can it be purchased for use in a brown bess. I don't want to have to buy 25 ponds. only need 1/2 pond to try out.
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shot for waterfoul
- Thread starter nwtradegun
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Good question.
Lead is not legal meaning subsitutes must be used. I look forward to the replies.
BTW, because of the lower velocities from the Bess, ranges must be closer also.
You are venturing on a real challenging hunt. Do your hunting buddies know what you will be using? I'm sure loading and shooting that big flint/flash locker in the tight quarters of a blind will present an interesting situation.
Lead is not legal meaning subsitutes must be used. I look forward to the replies.
BTW, because of the lower velocities from the Bess, ranges must be closer also.
You are venturing on a real challenging hunt. Do your hunting buddies know what you will be using? I'm sure loading and shooting that big flint/flash locker in the tight quarters of a blind will present an interesting situation.
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rj morrison said:
Those that are suitable for bare use in muzzleloader bores (ITX, bismuth, Nice shot) are selling in bags in quantities in the 6-7# range. Never saw anyplace you could buy half pound samples.
As for the Bess, I dinked a few airborne mallards with mine using 1 5/8 oz of ITX #4 over 120 grains of Goex 1f (same measure for both shot and powder). Ranges were limited to 25 yards or less, and they did just fine when I did my pointing job.
The cheapest, certainly easiest, way is to buy Crosman Copperhaed BB's*. They come in tubes of hundreds up to containers of a few thousand and are everywhere. Most of us already have some, or just ask your kid!
They are .177 caliber copper-washed steel and I have fired such, albeit infrequently in square shotgun as well as small-diameter Buck-n-Ball loads. I am careful about it...
Mathematically, 48 pellets creates four layers of 12 pellets each that should not wedge in your 11-gauge IMO, and that's what I've used. Remember the steel is lighter than lead; this load weighs only 9/16ths of an ounce, and though it's fast you should NOT shoot farther than a proper pattern (70% of your shot in a 30" circle). The good news is the relativley-harder-than-lead steel does get some penetration.
*I have NOT used Daisy's Zinc plated BB's as Crosman are ubiquitous and copper is denser, but Zinc is also softer than a steel barrel and provide some protection as well. That said, we're talking smoothbore so, in moderation, I'm not overly concerned either way and the above is expedient...
They are .177 caliber copper-washed steel and I have fired such, albeit infrequently in square shotgun as well as small-diameter Buck-n-Ball loads. I am careful about it...
Mathematically, 48 pellets creates four layers of 12 pellets each that should not wedge in your 11-gauge IMO, and that's what I've used. Remember the steel is lighter than lead; this load weighs only 9/16ths of an ounce, and though it's fast you should NOT shoot farther than a proper pattern (70% of your shot in a 30" circle). The good news is the relativley-harder-than-lead steel does get some penetration.
*I have NOT used Daisy's Zinc plated BB's as Crosman are ubiquitous and copper is denser, but Zinc is also softer than a steel barrel and provide some protection as well. That said, we're talking smoothbore so, in moderation, I'm not overly concerned either way and the above is expedient...
I don't know about lead being illegal for shotgun use. It isn't illegal in Arizona unless your hunting ducks/geese.
Using it for hunting dove and quail is OK here.
That said, if someone wants to get a small quantity of lead shot, all they have to do is to go to their local gun store/Wal-Mart and buy a box of 12 guage Dove/Quail loads.
A box of 25, 1 ounce shells will cost around $7 and give 25 ounces of shot (1.5 pounds).
All one has to do is to cut off or unfold the end of the shell and dump it out.
Using it for hunting dove and quail is OK here.
That said, if someone wants to get a small quantity of lead shot, all they have to do is to go to their local gun store/Wal-Mart and buy a box of 12 guage Dove/Quail loads.
A box of 25, 1 ounce shells will cost around $7 and give 25 ounces of shot (1.5 pounds).
All one has to do is to cut off or unfold the end of the shell and dump it out.
I don't know about lead being illegal for shotgun use. It isn't illegal in Arizona unless your hunting ducks/geese.
Using it for hunting dove and quail is OK here.
That said, if someone wants to get a small quantity of lead shot, all they have to do is to go to their local gun store/Wal-Mart and buy a box of 12 guage Dove/Quail loads.
A box of 25, 1 ounce shells will cost around $7 and give 25 ounces of shot (1.5 pounds).
All one has to do is to cut off or unfold the end of the shell and dump it out.
OK. Ignore what I said about using lead shot. I didn't notice the OP question was for hunting waterfoul.
Even so, buying a box of 25, 12 guage 1 1/8 oz shotgun shells intended for waterfoul hunting would give about 1 3/4 pound of shot.
There should be quite a range of shot materials to look for.
Using it for hunting dove and quail is OK here.
That said, if someone wants to get a small quantity of lead shot, all they have to do is to go to their local gun store/Wal-Mart and buy a box of 12 guage Dove/Quail loads.
A box of 25, 1 ounce shells will cost around $7 and give 25 ounces of shot (1.5 pounds).
All one has to do is to cut off or unfold the end of the shell and dump it out.
OK. Ignore what I said about using lead shot. I didn't notice the OP question was for hunting waterfoul.
Even so, buying a box of 25, 12 guage 1 1/8 oz shotgun shells intended for waterfoul hunting would give about 1 3/4 pound of shot.
There should be quite a range of shot materials to look for.
old ugly
40 Cal.
6000 177 Crossman bb cost $12.00 at cabellas here in Canada most likely cheeper in US. probably a cheep way to go
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old ugly said:
EEEEEK!!!!!! :shocked2:
Not in my guns you don't! The steel in them is many times harder than in shotgun shot. Even with heavy plastic wads, I wouldn't put them through a modern cartridge guns, much less a muzzleloader.
courdebois
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In manitoba ,canada, lead is illegal for use in waterfowl whither on land or near water,not so for upland game or turkey
Did your shoulder say "Ouch"? :shocked2:
Correct. Illegal for waterfowl. It is a Federal thing because waterfowl migrate.
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Rifleman1776 said:
Not at all. That's 1f rather 2f or 3f, so it softens things noticeably. It feels like a little more than a standard 1 1/4 oz load but less than a short mag in a modern 12 gauge. The Bess weighs quite a bit more than the modern 12's guys use all the time for ducks, plus the softer recoil "cycle" with black takes the bite out even more. Add in the extra clothes worn for duck hunts in winter, and it's a non-issue. Sure kills duck nicely, so a guy isn't even noticing any recoil.
OK. I have a Bess. Anything over 70 grains of 2Fg got uncomfortable for me.
Try to find some "Nice Shot" or "ITX-10". Any version of steel and most tungsten will require a thick plastic wad to protect the barrel. I have seen barrels that were ruined in one shot by shooting kids' BB's with no wad.
Any non non lead will be an up hill battle. IT is either too hard or not dense enough, or both. To get steel to kill you need to shoot it fast. You simply can not do that with BP. I have tried using #2 steel in a Beretta 12 ga O/U caplock. With equal volumes shot and powder it was useless. Very close range ducks were not hurt at all.
Some of the tungsten varients are dense enough, the 13 g/cc tungsten varients for instance. They are usually super hard and will ruin the barrel. You are stuck with using a thick plastic wad. Can you even get such a wad for the Bess? Is it close to 10 ga? Ballistic Products is probably the guys who can help.
Any non non lead will be an up hill battle. IT is either too hard or not dense enough, or both. To get steel to kill you need to shoot it fast. You simply can not do that with BP. I have tried using #2 steel in a Beretta 12 ga O/U caplock. With equal volumes shot and powder it was useless. Very close range ducks were not hurt at all.
Some of the tungsten varients are dense enough, the 13 g/cc tungsten varients for instance. They are usually super hard and will ruin the barrel. You are stuck with using a thick plastic wad. Can you even get such a wad for the Bess? Is it close to 10 ga? Ballistic Products is probably the guys who can help.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Hevi-Shot/products/67/
Expensive but check the rest of their non-tox
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Steel-Shot/products/70/
Steel cheap
Expensive but check the rest of their non-tox
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Steel-Shot/products/70/
Steel cheap
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You can get bismuth shot from these folks:
www.precisionreloading.com
They also have NICE shot as well, but currently dont have any of the smaller sizes.
www.precisionreloading.com
They also have NICE shot as well, but currently dont have any of the smaller sizes.
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I tried ONE steel load in my faux trade gun today!
No damage! I did wrap it in card though!
The shot was weighed and not loaded volume for volume, going by volume will not work IMO.
I resent that no allowance was made for muzzleloaders and the lead ban for waterfowl!
B.
No damage! I did wrap it in card though!
The shot was weighed and not loaded volume for volume, going by volume will not work IMO.
I resent that no allowance was made for muzzleloaders and the lead ban for waterfowl!
B.
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Found this:
metalshipper.com/bismuth.html?___store=default&gclid=CNeRi7PRgsECFSgV7Aodsx8AdA
Seems interesting at 19.99 per pound but they did not list a shot size that I could see. I've also seen it on fleabay for sale.
As a longtime waterfowl hunter I would not use steel in any gun, even an older modern cartridge gun, that wasn't specifically designed/rated for steel shot, or without a shot cup designed for it, for fear of damaging the gun. I doubt your Bess is such. I seem to recall some of the Cabela's/Pedersoli doubles being rated for steel but don't have a source to cite at the moment.
Given the small amount you are looking for I would seek out a box or two of bismuth or tungsten-polymer shells at a local store and open them up as Zonie mentioned.
On another note, given the agenda driven nature of current environmental studies, one has to at least wonder about the veracity of the lead shot studies and the speed with which the ban was implemented. Well it was "for the ducks" I guess.
metalshipper.com/bismuth.html?___store=default&gclid=CNeRi7PRgsECFSgV7Aodsx8AdA
Seems interesting at 19.99 per pound but they did not list a shot size that I could see. I've also seen it on fleabay for sale.
As a longtime waterfowl hunter I would not use steel in any gun, even an older modern cartridge gun, that wasn't specifically designed/rated for steel shot, or without a shot cup designed for it, for fear of damaging the gun. I doubt your Bess is such. I seem to recall some of the Cabela's/Pedersoli doubles being rated for steel but don't have a source to cite at the moment.
Given the small amount you are looking for I would seek out a box or two of bismuth or tungsten-polymer shells at a local store and open them up as Zonie mentioned.
On another note, given the agenda driven nature of current environmental studies, one has to at least wonder about the veracity of the lead shot studies and the speed with which the ban was implemented. Well it was "for the ducks" I guess.
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