Short Barrel Hawken

[Zonie]

If you re-read necchi's post you will see he is not calling one of our members a liar.

He is giving his opinion about what some un-named person wrote in a Muzzle Blasts article.

Knowingly making a personal attack against any of our members is against the forum rules.

Giving your thoughts on an article in a magazine is not against the forum rules.

This is not to say that I agree with necchi's comments. I don't know why he said someone couldn't get a 3.75" group at 100 yards when they were shooting a gun with a 24" long barrel.

With good eyesight, a group that size is quite possible.

 

[Danny Ross]

I don't remember reading that the shooting was "Off Hand" when the writer of the article did the groups that was stated by 52Bore. I didn't read the article just from what was written here. I "assumed" they were bench shot groups. Did I miss something somewhere :idunno: . Maybe you have the article from which you made your comment from. DANNY

 

[Gene L]

The guy with the recurve was Rev. Stacey Groscup. He once shot seven aspirins out the air in a row, a record that still stands.
http://piratesofarchery.net/bb/viewtopic.php?p=133676

 

[DarrinG]

Zonie, Does it matter if someone is a member of this forum if they are called a liar on a public forum? That sticks in my craw. I believe in treating others how I'd like to be treated. If the guy lied, show proof when you call him/her out on it. Then the truth is shown and it goes down easier.

If I was out of line with my post I apologize, to you and to the guy who said it.

 

[Gene L]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Just my .02.

 

[necchi]

No your not out of line at all.
At issue is 52bore hasn't validated his statement with anything but an as yet un-named authors article from an as yet un-dated magazine article from a currently published muzzleblasts.

I have personally seen a man shoot aspirin tablets tossed in the air with a .22 rifle.
I have seen on many occasions extraordinary examples from skilled shooters.


52bore has posted that he watched a man (has seen) shoot a 24" barrel and win long range conical matches.
I have no reason to doubt that and I believe him.

I guess I'm just not so quick to drool over a paid and sponsored authors claim just because it's in print.

Now, you want some help with really great practical and proven long distance shooting with conicals,, look here for some of our member posts.
If you want to dial in your off the shelf rifle with PRB,, read here on this forum
There is more practical experienced people here that are willing to help daily,, with any issue,, then can be read in multiple volumes of book let alone a single magazine article.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The article in question is titled "Short Barreled Hawken Rifles" by Bob Woodfill and is included in the April 2018 issue of "Muzzle Blasts". The article starts with a description of three short barreled S. Hawken stamped rifles with barrels of 29 9/16" (53 caliber) 30" (? caliber) and 23 9/16" (47 Caliber). All are in the style of a later Sam Hawken rifle made in the 1850s. In addition, one rifle, the 25" barrel appears to be cut down. The others based on the position of the thimble on the under rib are likely made with the short barrel.

The article continues with a description of the4 making of a similar short barreled replica based on a composite version of the three short barreled originals. The barrel was a 36" long Rice 54 caliber barrel that tapers from 1 1/8" at the breech to 1" at the muzzle. The barrel was shortened to 24" and the muzzle has a final dimension of 1.045" The rifle was built with ToW parts from the Jim Bridger rifle kit. The finished rifle weighs 8.5 lbs.

The author took advantage of the opportunity to do some comparison testing and the results are documented earlier in this thread. Accuracy testing was done with the 24" barreled replica. The 50 yard target used a load of 60 grains of 2fg GOEX, 0.015" Ox Yoke patch pre-lubed with Wonder Lube and shot into a 5 round group of 1" center to center. The 100 yard target also was a 5 shot group using a the same 0.530" ball, patch and lube over 120 grains of 2fg GOEX and the group is 3 3/4" center to center. Representative targets are included in the article. Load development is not mentioned nor is whether the shooting for accuracy was done off a bench, but I will make the guess that these are bench groups.

I don't think that copies of the guns are planned for sale. The article describes this unusual variant of a short barreled S. Hawken and takes a very top level look at what it would take to make a replica and an all too brief investigation of the performance. The references for the three short barreled Hawkens are included at the end of the article.

So now we have the name of the author of article and some more details of the parts tested. If anyone makes one, the results may be different.

 

[52Bore]

Thank you for posting about the article.
Rich Pierce post was also my initial impressions of the data and my 1st post (which probably wasn't written clearly), but clarified in Zonie and my data replies. Didn't think Vel would continue to increase with each increased load.
I also found it interesting that he wrote: 'in the past, museums and collectors have not recognized this class of short-barreled Hawken rifles, and have routinely labeled them as with 'cut down' barrels..." I took this as his purpose to write about them - I found it quite interesting reading.
I also enjoyed the article of the Last Mountain Man and His Remarkable Rifle - Zeth
Kinman. I hope you did too.
Thanks again for posting info.