Repairing and using my U.S. Model 1816 Flintlock Musket

[WeaponsCollector]

I have a U.S. Model 1816 Flintlock Musket that I would like to repair and use. The top jaw is missing and the top jaw screw is broken off at the lower jaw. Searching on-line I have found parts from Dixie Gun Works. The problem is, I don't know what I don't know. Is there a good place to find original replacement parts, or other good sources for repros? Is there a downside of using cast replacements? How can I make the cast replacements match the look (age) of the original lock parts? Any advice would be appreciated.

This 1816 Flintlock Musket that was manufactured by M.T. Wickham of Philadelphia c. 1833

Looks Like I can't send a link to the photos. Sorry.
http://www.weaponscollector.com/images/111-0300/111-0300a_small.jpg
http://www.weaponscollector.com/images/111-0300/111-0300b_small.jpg

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Hard to say without photos, but best advice for replacement parts of good quality is The Rifle Shoppe:
http://www.therifleshoppe.com/

for original parts go with Lodgewood:
http://www.lodgewood.com/

Avoid Dixie Gun Works for both new and original parts.

Keep in mind that original parts for the M1816 are not interchangeable, close but will almost always require hand fitting.

Also, an original will need to be examined by a qualified BP gunsmith to assure that it is safe to shoot and will require careful restoration and most especially maintenance or it will tumble in value. Maybe not such a big deal to you but important to the future.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

Thanks for the tips. I hear that getting parts from The Rifle Shoppe can take forever. Have you had better luck?

I will be looking for a good Black Powder Gunsmith in my area, South East Florida.

Here is another try at the photos.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Thanks for the photos, it looks to be in pretty decent condition, I would try for original parts to maintain the originality of the gun - expensive, yes, but well worth it in the long run. As far as parts from TRS, yes, it can take time but the wait is well worth it if new cast parts are your only source, they (TRS) are the best. My last order from them took two weeks to fill, but that depends on what you need and if it is in stock or has to be cast before they can send it out.

As far as shooting this gun, I wouldn't, the condition, from what I can see, is too good. If complete and properly restored it will have a value that would allow you to sell it and buy two good quality reproductions. The patina would be lost from use and the value to a collector is in the appearance of the hand of time on an unmessed with original. For values of original M1816 muskets, see Norm Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values, 9th Edition available at any good bookseller or at Amazon.com. Be sure to get the latest edition, the 9th. You may be very surprised.

The above being said, it is, for now, your gun so the decision is yours to make, I'm sure others will have different opinions. (But I know I am right. :wink: )

 

[WeaponsCollector]

What you can't see in the photos is that the barrel was shortened sometime in the distant past. The first barrel band has been removed. The stock and end band have been moved back. I have $300.00 in it.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Ah ha! Well, the original flint lock (minus top jaw and screw) are worth $300 so you did well, too bad someone shortened it because the stock in the lock region looks to be nice.

You might consider ordering a new reproduction M1816 barrel from Colerain and stretch the stock? Or have Bob Hoyt stretch the original barrel? You can use a TRS repop front band and ramrod and have a full length gun to play with. Or you can repair the lock and shoot it as is.

If you have time, show us a full length photo, please.

 

[Jim Blair]

I've bought parts here,but they do require finishing and fitting-
http://www.ssfirearms.com/products.asp?cat=71

I would have the barrel checked by someone competent to do so as suggested.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

Ok, here are some more shots. Other than the top jaw the lock works well. Knowing that the barrel has been shortened do you still think it is worth picking up "original" parts?

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

For the lock itself, yes.

That is an interesting shortening. They removed the middle band and kept the front band. It may have been done for military purposes but I doubt it, it is more likely that the barrel ruptured during military service and the gun was surplussed and put into this configuration by it's new civilian owner. There appears to be a slight swelling at the muzzle indicating the above.

What is the current barrel length? Is the front band held on by friction or did they use some other way of attaching it? If friction only holds it on it will likely move forward under recoil.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

The barrel is 35 inches long. The front band is not fastened but it has a nice tight fit. You can remove it after taking out the ram rod, but you need to give it a tug.

 

[varsity07840]

Try Ed Knisely for original parts. 717-741-2556
He doesn't list it on his website, but Dan Whitacre can make a barrel for you. www.whitacremachineshop.com

Duane

 

[WeaponsCollector]

Thanks, I'll check them out. Can anyone tell me a good way to make the finish match on the replacement parts?

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Work slowly and do not try to use power tools, it must be done slowly and carefully to maintain the shape of the part you are working with. That being said, a drill press will help drilling the hole in the top jaw for the screw (be sure to get the angle right) and also in removing the broken screw in the original cock - center drill the old screw with a sharp, clean bit and use an easy-out. For removing the cast finish of the new parts, use small, fine files since you are only taking about a top jaw and screw.

After you have finish filed the parts to be patinated, apply a good cold browning solution. It will rust the parts and you will apply the finish as many times as needed to match the patina on the rest of the gun. If you are inexperienced in gun work it will be a somewhat difficult process but not impossible to learn. Rust browning is tricky but once learned (experiment with scrap steel) it will go easier.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

I just got off the phone with Danyelle at Lodgewood. I ordered an original "Good" M1816 hammer that included the top jaw and top jaw screw for $125. That should give me more than enough to work with.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

Thanks again for the recommendations and the tips!

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

$125 is an excellent price, they are good people and always treat you well.

If the shaft hole in the cock lines up correctly for the orientation of the square on the tumbler shaft you are good to go but be prepared to make some adjustment. Keep in mind that they can fit the cock to the tumbler at a reasonable price if you run into problems.

Almost forgot to add, whatever you do, don't loose the original cock, it's worth good money.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

I already have the screw out of the old lock. I will try just using the "new" top jaw and screw from Lodgewood with the old hammer. If that works I can trade the left over "new" hammer parts back to them the next time I buy something or keep it for my parts collection.

 

[Jim Blair]

In looking at your pictures,you're very lucky,that top band is almost unobtanium as far as finding an original one IMHO.Good buy,parts value is probably twice what you paid.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

Thanks Scott

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

I already have the screw out of the old lock. I will try just using the "new" top jaw and screw from Lodgewood with the old hammer. If that works I can trade the left over "new" hammer parts back to them the next time I buy something or keep it for my parts collection.

Good for you! :thumbsup: I was going to suggest that but figured that it might add too much confusion.