Rate of twist for 36 cal conical?

[caionneach]

First, what is the rate of twist for a 36 cal conical barrel? I have read that a 36 cal PRB barrel tends to be 1:48, so a conical is likely a good deal faster than that, and since the Lyman GP Hunter barrel in .54 comes in 1:32, then a 36 cal barrel for conicals is going to be faster than that, probably 1:25 or so.

Secondly, does anyone make a barrel with that rate of twist already, or is this going to be a request for a custom-made barrel and hence likely to be prohibitively expensive?

Does anyone make a rifle with that rate of twist, or can the rate of twist be specified by the buyer when choosing components?

I ask because I have .36 caliber Max-ball bullets, and I really like their potential, either as a deer killing bullet, for hogs, or even squirrels. I also have the bullet moulds to make my own.

Thanks in advance.

Kenneth

 

[BrownBear]

TC lists the twist rates for all their models and calibers here.

Looks like 1:48 was standard for their 36 calibers, and I sure never heard any complaints about accuracy with their Maxi's.

Quite the contrary. Accurate as sin, as a matter of fact.

 

[Dphar]

First, what is the rate of twist for a 36 cal conical barrel? I have read that a 36 cal PRB barrel tends to be 1:48, so a conical is likely a good deal faster than that, and since the Lyman GP Hunter barrel in .54 comes in 1:32, then a 36 cal barrel for conicals is going to be faster than that, probably 1:25 or so.

Secondly, does anyone make a barrel with that rate of twist already, or is this going to be a request for a custom-made barrel and hence likely to be prohibitively expensive?

Does anyone make a rifle with that rate of twist, or can the rate of twist be specified by the buyer when choosing components?

I ask because I have .36 caliber Max-ball bullets, and I really like their potential, either as a deer killing bullet, for hogs, or even squirrels. I also have the bullet moulds to make my own.

Thanks in advance.

Kenneth

The Maxi-Bullet has a dismal record with many people who have hunted with them. The nose design tends to get more pointed when it strikes flesh rather than expanding.
I read one account of a person's wife shooting a deer in the kill zone with a maxi, 45 IIRC and then killing a deer with a healed through and through wound the next year.
Others have related that its poor on large game like moose 54 rb doing better than a maxi of the same caliber. Again lack of expansion and in 48 twists they are not stable and tend to go off track and miss the internal organs they are aimed at.
This is likely why the "Maxi-Hunter" bullet was developed.
Frankly I would not waste my time buying a special barrel for one. A 36 caliber shooting a flat point cloth patched picket bullet would be more effective but still needs a 30-36" twist or so for best accuracy. The picket has its own set of problems, like needing a precision starter.

Modern shooters have a tough time getting their minds around the round ball being superior to the conical for hunting. But weight for weight it is and this has been pointed out since the conical came into development in the early 19th century.
Having shot game, a deer and and antelope, with 40 caliber BPCR with bullets that failed to expand properly I can assure you that shooting deer with a none expanding small diameter bullet at BP velocities is very much not recommended. Unless it gets something major, heart, aorta, spine. The deer may never be recovered. I found one and lost one of the two. I then made a nose punch for the swage for the 40-70 to make a FP bullet and reverted from the most accurate 1:20 to 1:40.
If you want to shoot a deer with a ML get a 50 caliber or larger and preferably shoot the PRB. Its track record is far better than the pro-conical gun writers and makers of the modern conicals would like to admit. Newer is not better in all cases and the RB hung on as the common ML hunting bullet until the coming of really powerful cartridge guns in the 1870s. The 54 Hawken, for example, is a good match for the cartridge guns within its range. Far better than the "pistol cartridge" repeaters in everything but weather and rate of fire. Yeah I have shot one deer with a BP loaded 38-40. Friend tells me a 44-40 is no better.

Shooting squirrels with a Maxi is REALLY bad unless you only shoot down. The one thing the maxi does well is GREATLY increase the maximum range. So its possible to shoot at a squirrel in a tree and have the slug go through a roof 1500-2000 yards or more away. RB in 36 will not go more than 800 to 1000 regardless of elevation.
At BP velocities the really heavy slugs used, like a 500-550 grain 45 caliber will travel 3200 to 3700 yards and penetrate 2-3" of pine at maximum range. So shooting conicals up is a bad idea in most parts of the USA today.

Dan

 

[caionneach]

Checked out that chart--thanks for posting that link, btw--and true enough there is only one rate of twist for 36 cal bullets, presumably for either PRB or conical. I will need to call T/C to verify if that is their recommendation for a 36 cal barrel. I am no gunsmith or professional ballistician, but since practice among manufacturers is to use a faster rate of twist for conical bullets (e.g., Lyman GP Hunter, et al) it stands to reason that should be the same for a 36 cal bullet, notwithstanding the lack of complaints for T/C 36 cal rifles.

 

[J.D.]

Keneth, Re-read Dan's post. He is right on about the effectiveness of RB vs conical in ML guns.

God bless

 

[caionneach]

I must admit that I have never done it much, shooting conicals, that is. Long ago I took a liking to shooting the PRB, and did so in my 1:48 twist percussion T/C Renegade in .54 cal. Got me started on rifles of the Rocky Mtn fur trapping era. Took my first deer, a doe, at 60 paces: shot her in the neck, she did an about-face and never moved after that. So I was sold!

I was planning on taking my Lyman GP Hunter barrel to the range this weekend and putting in some time working up loads for these different modern bullets I have but haven't had the time to shoot. I have Power Belts and Precision Rifle Dead Center bullets all in .54 caliber. I also have the very interesting Hornady conical which has a hollow point and hollow base like a Civil War era bullet. I also have several hundred .54 Maxi-Balls which I think may shoot just fine in the 1:32 Hunter barrel.

So, you get no argument from me about how effective a round ball can be from a muzzle loader. I'm just a little skeptical that 1:48 is fast enough to stabilize a .36 conical Maxi-ball. Just curious. It would be a unique rifle, especially if the rifling were quick enough to stabilize the bullet sufficiently to be accurate. I still like the idea very much. Now for squirrels, I think I prefer a .32 cal long rifle, but I don't have any direct experience with that. Some day soon I'll build a .32 for my son, and I'll see then. :thumbsup:

 

[nkbj]

First, what is the rate of twist for a 36 cal conical barrel?
Well Kenneth, It's just gonna depend on the length of the conical. For a 36 maxi the best thing to do is just look at 38Spl revolvers. The maxis make pretty good light weight slugs for bunnies if you're into pistol hunting.

Secondly, does anyone make a barrel with that rate of twist already, or is this going to be a request for a custom-made barrel and hence likely to be prohibitively expensive?
Finding a barrel might not be hard but finding one with flats cut on it generally is. Conversely, folks that make muzzleloading barrels often will not make small bore barrels. And, sadly, many that have are dropping out. But, you can still find most whatever is wanted at a reasonable price.

Does anyone make a rifle with that rate of twist, or can the rate of twist be specified by the buyer when choosing components?
You might have to contact several barrel makers to find what you want. People that also do reboring will be a good bet. For many years I've considered it a darn shame that TC didn't do the obvious and make a faster twist 36 to use commonly available molds. I use a flintlock pistol with a .355 groove that makes wonderful use of them. I'm threatening to get a .47 bore to use the plentiful .46 rifle molds paper patched and to also use the .48 molds that are available for the new revolvers.

 

[caionneach]

The Maxi-Bullet has a dismal record with many people who have hunted with them. The nose design tends to get more pointed when it strikes flesh rather than expanding.

Just to contest this a little, my father-in-law, no friend to traditional rifles or hunting, hunts with nothing but maxi-balls during the muzzleloading only deer hunts in Arkansas. He only uses Pyrodex or Triple 7 too in an old Thompson/Center percussion rifle in .45 caliber. He has taken many deer with it. It's neither a Hawken or Renegade; can't seem to remember the model of the rifle, but once was a standard offering by Thompson/Center. He had it restocked in a premium grade of maple and is very good looking.