Question on 18th century "Diamond" Shape Grip Trade Knives

[tenngun]

Not commenting on HC of the knife, but I have seen good Indian and soft Indian made knifes.thay have been making good steel there for about 3000 years. It can be unpridictabr what you get from India

 

[crockett]

I have. I took a 7" Old Hickory Carving Knife, ground off the hash marks, "aged" it in bleach, and etched on a Maltese Cross and F. I did the diamond handle because James Hanson in his book, "The Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook" has that style shown. And, because it had to be a "red handled Indian knife" I dyed the wood red.
Well, never say never. BUT all the scalpers actually documented that still have handles, the only I've seen are regular slabs. I'm not certain how common the diamond style was and what time frame it was used.
Smith's Key of 1816 shows butcher knives that are sort of half way. The bevels are very great and the flat slabs reduced in width.
On the question- works great, no problem cutting etc. with the diamond shape.

 

[crockett]

One more thing.....now a days there is a lot of "old looking stuff". A knife blade 20 years old and rusted might look like something from the 1700's. To make matters worse, today a lot of museum curator's have no regard for the correctness of their collection. If they want a display on tools used by pioneers they'll just go to a local junk shop, buy some old stuff and put it in the display. I've asked A LOT OF THEM about the background or this or that and usually get "the treatment". You'll see pistols in displays with "made in Spain" on the barrel.
Help!!!

 

[tenngun]

Ayup I have seen many mislabeled guns and some mislabeled tool in collections. I have been told and never saw it my self that a Townsend mucket/ corn boiler was put in smithonian as part of long hunter collection. Then there is the story of House seeing one of his rifles in a meusem. And was told by an employee at fort bridger that salt pork could be soaked in water and it turned in to bacon. The salt pork they had was a piece of modern salty fat in plastic package.

 

[Artificer]

Thank you for your reply. Did you acid etch the Maltese Cross and F using a wax coating and brick layer's (Muriatic) Acid?

Gus

Tenngun,

Indeed, I've seen everything from very well made steel to downright junk that came from India. They can and will make whatever the customer wants to pay for.

I picked up a somewhat short and plain old broadsword blade at Friendship, IN for very little money in the 70's. It was rust pitted deeply, but it looked like it might be good to make a short sword or cutlass.

In the early 80's when I was doing a Confederate Marine Sergeant impression, I was able to buy an extremely good Original Enfield Cutlass Bayonet and Scabbard that fit my real Parker Hale 2 Band Rifle perfectly. However, I only wore that at living histories and would not "take it on the field" during reenactments because I was not going to see it damaged. So I decided to make a Cutlass out of the sword blade mentioned above, to sometimes wear at reenactments.

Since that blade was not going to be correct for anything else, I decided to make the guard and grip look like one made for civilian ships about the time of the War of 1812. I fashioned a brass D Guard and period style oak handle. I really lucked out that I found a German period 1830's scabbard for an Artillery Sword that fit that blade. I added a repro Enfield Frog as that was how Petty Officers and Marine NCO's wore them, when they actually wore their Cutlasses when on "landing party duty." I had cleaned up the blade a lot, but had to leave some of the deepest pits in the blade.

I used that Cutlass and rig for a couple reenacting seasons and therefore "use aged" it. I traded it off after that for something I really wanted, but can't remember now.

Anyway, about a year and a half after I traded it off, I walked into the shop of a guy who sold Civil War military antiques and found "My Old Cutlass" on the wall advertised as "An Original Confederate Cutlass." Now the funny thing was I had purchased the original scabbard for the cutlass from him, about five years earlier, but he had not recognized it.

So figuring I would have a little fun with him, I asked to see it. I told him I believed the frog was a repro and he agreed with that. I mentioned the scabbard was original, though of "European Make" and he agreed with that. I told him the blade was original, though it was unidentifiable and he agreed with that. Then I told him the D Guard and handle were reproductions. His eyes got big and he asked me how I figured that. I told him it was simple, I had MADE THEM. He looked at me in surprise (if not shock) and then I informed him I had purchased the scabbard from him about 5 years earlier.

To give him credit and though he was very upset with himself, he ripped off the tag and replaced it with one that read "reproduction cutlass made with original blade and scabbard" and for a much lower price than before.

Gus

 

[tenngun]

:hatsoff: : well good for him being honest :thumbsup:

 

[crockett]

The documentation thing has become a big issue. Now I ask a lot of questions.

On the etch, I got ferric acid from Radio Shack and coated the blade with beeswax. I used a photocopy of a +F mark to scrape away the wax. It wasn't perfect but I had aged the blade so all in all it looked about right.

 

[Barry Stewart]

Actually I have used the diamond shaped handle and find it quite comfortable. I modified an old butcher knife with this type of handle. Drilling the holes is not a problem if you keep the sides more square than simply file in the diamond shape. If I remember right Hanson also refers to this handle as "lozenge shape....secured with three iron pins" in his "Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook." This book is based on the examination of many original pieces and seems to be worth the modest purchase price.
*****sorry for the redundant info I made the mistake of posting this without reading the whole thread

 

[Artificer]

No need to apologize at all. I very much appreciate anyone/everyone writing their experiences, even if someone already did. That tells me what more people have found to be true.

Thank you all,
Gus