Phoenix-Winter Nationals

[George Kevil]

Tkendrick,
I see that you offered to help again. Most of the work is done before the Nationals start.About the only thing they need are range officers.Or help us Sunday tearing the place down.
George

 

[Tkendrick]

Unfortunately, in my business I have to schedule time for things like this at least four or five weeks in advance.

While appreciate the fact that many such organizations rely on last minute walk ons to help out, that doesn't work for those of us that are trying to balance business, family obligations and other range duties.

I have commitments for both Saturday and Sunday, either of which could have been moved a couple of weeks ago, but I can't in good consciousness try to find another volunteer at this late date.

Once again, why is it that I hear nothing from the organization, unless I mention it on this board?

 

[akapennypincher]

First let me state I am not trying to flame anything, but will state a few fact for those who do not know some history.

I spent about three hours there today.

I picked up some GOEX for $15 a pound, still a couple of bucks cheaper than local prices.

Don Eichenberger the Power Man from Clarksville Arkansas has tried each year to support the Western Shooter with IMHO Very Fair Pricing for Real Black Powder, considering how much it cost him to travel to Phoenix, from Clarksville, Arkansas to support the WNS Shoot, and other like the BPC Shooter who come to the WNS to buy REAL BLACK POWDER.

Don is a great guy, and will ship powder to people who can not make it to the shoot in 25# Cases, and will mix powder brands, and granular sizes. He can be reached at (749) 754-8358

There was some neat stuff on traders row, but I was hoping to pickup either a kit or an in the white early lancaster, and there were no gunmaker/suppliers there. In fact, there were very few firearms for sale at all, and most of those were second hand commercial guns.

FYI many of the Trader who came to the WNS years ago have not returned for the past several years because the Shoot has not grown, the Event has not been advertised Locally, or Regionally in the press, or at Gun Shows in the Phoenix Metro Area,with the exception to NMLRA Members in the Muzzle Blast

This is a Dollars & Cents thing, as many Traders who gave up coming to the WNS when they where promised advertising, and promotion NEXT YEAR many times by PAST NMLRA Presidents, and BOD MEMBERS.

The next years came and went but the promised advertising, and promotion never happened.

Was not Tip Curtis, and his Frontier Shop present this year, as he was one of the last Traders with a good selection of Custom Rifles, and Smoothies in the White, and finished For Sale. Plus Tip always had Locks, Stocks, and Barrels etc., etc. etc., for the builder. plus you name it, like Horns, Shooting Bags, etc, etc., etc.

I also stopped by the NMLRA offices for a few minutes to say high. They reported a light turnout(but it is just the first day). I know we don't want to turn this into a flame the NMLRA session again this year, but once again (sixth year in a row) I had volunteered to help out, and received absolutely no response from anyone in the organization. A shame, as I live less than 30 minutes from the range.

You said it right it is a shame you offer help, and never got a reply to your offer.

This is really frustrating. I like most of the people I have had contact with in the organization, but it's hard to maintain an organization that can't respond to even a simple offer or question at this event.

Maybe you need to write a Long Letter or e-mail to the New NMLRA President, or if he is at the shoot you need to tell him of you frustration face to face.

Unfortunately, in my business I have to schedule time for things like this at least four or five weeks in advance.

While appreciate the fact that many such organizations rely on last minute walk ons to help out, that doesn't work for those of us that are trying to balance business, family obligations and other range duties.

I have commitments for both Saturday and Sunday, either of which could have been moved a couple of weeks ago, but I can't in good consciousness try to find another volunteer at this late date.

Once again, why is it that I hear nothing from the organization, unless I mention it on this board?

I am almost curious to the point that I may drive out to Ben Avery tomorrow morning to see what is going on if I have nothing else going on.

But your report seems to tell the story of the WNS that I knew before you post it, as it has been that way for 6-8 years.

Sadly if Traditional Muzzle Loading is to survive the NMLRA, and other Traditional Muzzle loading groups need to attract NEW People.

 

[Zonie]

I'll try to be out there on Saturday to look around.

 

[Tkendrick]

Don is about the only reason I really have to go out there anymore. My pards and I try to stock up a years worth of powder during these events.

I didn't see Tip this year. I think I saw every vendors there, but I may have missed one. I got there about noon, and had to leave by two. If he set up later than that, I didn't see him.

 

[akapennypincher]

Don is about the only reason I really have to go out there anymore. My pards and I try to stock up a years worth of powder during these events.

I didn't see Tip this year. I think I saw every vendors there, but I may have missed one. I got there about noon, and had to leave by two. If he set up later than that, I didn't see him.

Too bad Tip did not make it again this years, as he was at the far end of the Traders Row lasy year. As IMHO he was the LAST GUY to have the stuff gun builders needed. Sadly Vernor Davis, TVM, Jack Garner, Carwood, Wayne Dunlap, JP Gun Stocks, and North Star West no longer come to the WNS.

But Vernor Davis sold out, JP Gun Stock went under, and the other stay home for the reason I gave above.

Top lost his prime spot lasy year to the local guy, Roger Mortensen aka the Mountainman who move in the year before when Tip did not come.

Too busy today to go out to the WNS, and I think I will not make it this year, as in looking at my needs list there is nothing I really need.

Not sure this will be the last WNS in Phoenix or not, as I understand from a friend who was on the NMLRA BOd in past years, who is close to several on the current BOD it has been talk about weather or not to continue the WNS, as the event has never really had much growth.

Personally I fell the reason the event has never grown, is lack of publicity, or media coverage. No mention of the WNS in the Arizona Repulic, or in the AZ Game & Fish weekly press release.

But there was a link about the shoot on the AZ Game & Fish Web-site if you dug.
http://www.azgfd.net/hunting/shoot...stern-national-muzzle-loader-shoot/2009/02/05/

 

[Zonie]

If I didn't know better, I'd say that old akapennypincher was out there at the Nationals today.

At least someone who looked like him and called me "zonie" was there.

Yup, about the only gun parts that were there were some locks and lock kits along with some Lyman GPR kits with an asking price of over $400.
There were a lot of factory made finished rifles and pistols there but the prices being asked were kinda high.

As was mentioned Don was there selling powder.
This year, the price of Swiss was up to $20/lb and by the time I got there they only had it in 3Fg.
He also had some powder cans with the front table removed and replaced. It was called "Gater".

One look at the back of the can told me what it was so I asked and sure enough, it was some old Elephant Brand powder. I think they were asking about $13/lb for it.

It was a beautiful day out there, light breeze, about 65 degrees F, a few small white clouds in a blue sky.

 

[akapennypincher]

Yes Zonie I was there as my shooting buddy cancelled out on my because his Grandson was having a Birthday Party. So I drove out to BASF to look see.

I am curious what brand of Powder you bought from don that you think is Elephant? FYI: according to Don, Elephant Brand is up and running again in a new 10-20 (location), they have (2) Containers sitting in some PORT in the U.S., awaiting someone stepping up to be the Distributor of the NEW ELEPHANT BRAND Made in Argentina, and the word is the Powder is no where as good as the OLD ELEPHANT.

All I personally saw Don selling was Goex, Shutzen, and Swiss, and the Swiss was only available in FFFG like you said. Don did sell a SH** LOAD of Powder Tuesday, and Wednesday. The BPC Shooter cleaned him out of 1/5F early in the week. Plus many only to the came to the WNSbuy Powder, and then when home!

Now I will make a comment about the WNS as of Friday According to the Trader Row Coordinator (BOONE), they had 160 REGISTERED SHOOTERS, so if they wound up with 200 or 220 they were lucky. Shoot is way down form the day of 400+ REGISTERED SHOOTERS!!!!

IMHO the Traders Row had a lot of Traders but noting I was looking for, and there was a lot of stuff if you are a Buck Skinner in need of trinkets to finish off a persona.

Sadly there were almost NO Stock, Locks, Barrels, or Custom Gun Kits, Section of Flints, or Selection of parts for sale.

Guess the funniest thing I heard was from a Traders NAMED BOONE, (who was also the traders row coordibator) who was complaining about the Media not covering the SHOOT BECAUSE MARICOPA COUNTY is ANTI GUN. Apparently his wife faxed a press Release to several Medias with no one come to cover the event. Seems like a nice guy, but honestly has not a clue on how the PR/Media Relations Biz Works.

I told him the reason the Media did not come out the WNS was the Media are bombarded with hundreds, and hundreds of PRESS RELEASES weekly, and they seem to cover those Event that are smart enough to have a PR Person Working the Media for months in advance of an event. Or have a Slick Eye Catching Media Kit like the FESTIVAL of the West sends me each year..

Years ago it was told to the NMLRA BRASS if they want Media coverage of the WNS they need a Media Day Event, Slick media Kit, and a Media Luncheon, as FOOD or should I say FREE FOOD seems to get the attention of assignment editors. Being blunt the Media if they give any event coverage it is FREE ADVERTISING, and the Media Expects something in return.

So in the final analysis of this year WNS, Shoot, and the Trader Rows on a SCALE of 1 Being Worst, and 10 Being Super, I give the NMLRA a 2 for having the event. :2

Wish I had a camera with me yesterday, as it was funny to see a guy on the Pistol Line shooting what appeared to be a Model 1911 .45 Caliber Pistol with a Muzzle Loading Barrel Attached, that was fired with the 1911 Lowers Trigger. Not exactly what I would call a Muzzle Loader, but it was and was shooting a lost of “X’s” at 15, or was it 25 Yards. Plus it did load up front.

Personally as I have said before in Traditional Muzzleloading is to survive it will only do so through promotion by Individuals, Traditional Muzzleloading Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and shooting organization involved in Traditional Muzzle Loading.

Again just my :2

 

[Zonie]

aka:
I didn't say I bought any GATER powder. I said they had some cans with a label pasted to the front of them that said GATER. The rear of the cans was still the old yellow field with the black boarder that Elephant used for years. It also said the powder was made in Brazil.

The powder I bought was Swiss 3Fg

 

[akapennypincher]

aka:
I didn't say I bought any GATER powder. I said they had some cans with a label pasted to the front of them that said GATER. The rear of the cans was still the old yellow field with the black boarder that Elephant used for years. It also said the powder was made in Brazil.

The powder I bought was Swiss 3Fg

Think the Gater is like DUST,and works FASTer than FFFG for Flint Ignition.

The Gater is fines, and Don told me it is kind of his baby project, and her make the stuff in a secret process.


There was also a NEW Trader selling Fire Etched Knives I would have love to have one but was shot on $$, maybe he will be back next year, if the WNS goes again?.

 

[FishDFly]

aka,

The Shoot will return to Phoenix for a least three (3) more years and powder will be available next year.

Attendance was down, that's to expected with the ecomomy. The motel we stay in had half the number of people staying there than they did last year. The owner said business and pleasure travelers is down in the Phoenix area.

Tradition is really hard to find unless you go to the Primitive line.

It was a nice shoot and is very well run.

RDE

 

[Jim/OH]

Well Richard - -
I see you're back. Let us know how you did. Where am I going to see your name in the pistol scores when the Winter Nationals makes Muzzle Blasts? :bow: I assume you will be in there. Hope you do make it out to Friendship this year. Be nice to meet someone I have been talking with for quite a while. Look forward to it.

See ya, Jim/OH :hatsoff:

 

[akapennypincher]

aka,

The Shoot will return to Phoenix for a least three (3) more years and powder will be available next year.

Attendance was down, that's to expected with the ecomomy. The motel we stay in had half the number of people staying there than they did last year. The owner said business and pleasure travelers is down in the Phoenix area.

Tradition is really hard to find unless you go to the Primitive line.

It was a nice shoot and is very well run.

RDE

Thanks for the report, and as I was told last summer when in the Mother Lode at a Motel we stay at there and have for years, that August was the worst in 20 years of ownership, as we have a NEW Word in the American Language. STAY-CATION, meaning people are staying home on vacation.

IMHO if the powers to be decided to shut down the Western/Winter Shoot, the NMLRA A would loose a whole lot of Western Members, and thus the shoot will continue to be held.

Sadly as I said the Shoot was not promoted in the Phoenix Metro Area, Arizona, or West other than to the NMLRA Member in the BLAST.

I personally that promotion would be a vehicle to kindles people interest in the sport!

 

[FishDFly]

Jim/OH,

It was a nice trip, it was a nice shoot and I did better than I thought I would.

I won my share of rifle and pistol aggreggates and won numerous individuals matches. Listing them is not correct, check out Muzzle Blasts when the results are posted in a couple of months.

RDE

 

[Jim/OH]

That sounds great Richard. Sounds like you are putting into practice what we have been talking about. I look forward to seeing the shoot resluts. Congratulations :thumbsup: It is good to hear you had a good time, seems like some are putting the Winter Nationals down, and that should not be done. I know I would like to go sometime, just have to save up my pennies and figure a way to do it. My wife has a cousin and I have a niece that lives near there, maybe we could shack up with them to cut expenses. :hmm: Hope to see you at Friendship this year.

Take care, see ya, Jim/OH :hatsoff: