Period Correct??

[Black Hand]

"My companions threw some logs and rubbish together, forming a kind of shelter from the night breeze,..."
-Journal of a Trapper Osbourne Russell

"We made a sort of shelter from the wind out of pine branches and built a large fire of pitch
knots in front of it, so that we were burning on one side and freezing on the other, alternately, all night."
-Journal of a Trapper Osbourne Russell

"...we started without a single article of bedding except an old cloth tent, whilst rain poured incessantly"
-Journal of a Trapper Osbourne Russell

"The party is divided into messes of eight men, and each mess is allowed a separate tent."
-Narrative of a Journey Across the Rocky Mountains to the Columbia River

"As we had plenty of provisions, a supply was given to the Indians, who prepared their supper, after which the chief and Principal warriors came to our tent. In Mr. McKenzie's tent there were seven none of whom appeared to me to be lower than five feet ten inches; some more than six feet."
-Travels in the Interior of North America in the Years 1809, 1810 and 1811 - Bradbury

"In the month of April 1811, the encampment was broken up, and the party, now consisting of nearly
sixty persons, embarked in four boats on the Missouri,the largest boat being mounted with a swivel and two howitzers. The early stages of the voyage up the mighty Missouri were excedingly pleasant. During the day, the boats were carried forward by a strong wind impelling the sails, or the oars were merrily plied by the expert voyageurs, to the music of their old French chansons. .. Encamping at night on some beautiful bank, beneath spreading trees, which afforded shelter and fuel, the tents were pitched, the fires made and the meals prepared round the evening fire. Allwere asleep at an early hour; some lying uuder the tents, others wrapped in blankets before the fire or beneath the trees, and some few in the boats, moored to the margin of the stream."
-A Journey Beyond the Rocky Mountains in 1835, 1836 and 1837 - S Parker

 

[Black Hand]

"I never wish to feel more pleasure than I did as he rushed into the tent exclaiming, "I have killed two big Buck Elk!""
-Adventures of Leonard Zenas

"An erection called a tent, but more correctly a wigwam, was made in the hurry with forks, and cross-poles, covered by the branches of fir."
-An Accurate and Interesting Account...Campaign against Quebec in 1775 - J.J. Henry

"As the Birch Rind is impervious to water; Canoes are made of it of all sizes to thirty feet in length, by four to five feet in breadth on the middle bar; this large size is made use of by the Traders, for the conveyance of furrs and goods, and is so light, it is carried by two men, when turned up. On shore, it affords good shelter to the Men, against Rain and the night."
-David Thompson's Narrative of his Explorations in Western America 1784-1812

"We threw the Tent over some Oak sapplings and got under shelter from showers of rain, hail and sleet:"
-David Thompson's Narrative of his Explorations in Western America 1784-1812

"Each party has a canvas tent -like a soldier's
bell tent with the top cut off to let the smoke out."
-David Thompson's Narrative of his Explorations in Western America 1784-1812

"We loaded the sleds with the tent, our baggage and some provisions, leaving the rest for another trip, each of us hauled about seventy pounds and the fine dog 100 pounds weight."
-David Thompson's Narrative of his Explorations in Western America 1784-1812

 

[tg]

". In Mr. McKenzie's tent there were seven none of whom appeared to me to be lower than five feet ten inches; some more than six feet."


Good post, the above is the knd of period writing that makes me wonder about the accuracy of somew of the thoughts and standards and norms we associate with this time period as most would say that the average man was quite a bit shorter than today, it might be surprising to see just how close we are on some things if the whole picture was available given the bits and pieces we use as evidence, just a thought as we must use what we have else specuilation would rule.

 

"My companions threw some logs and rubbish together, forming a kind of shelter from the night breeze,..."
-Journal of a Trapper Osbourne Russell

"We pitched our Diamond Shelter next to the port-a-pottys" ~ Billy Bob Rondy - 1992

 

[Black Hand]

"My companions threw some logs and rubbish together, forming a kind of shelter from the night breeze,..."
-Journal of a Trapper Osbourne Russell

"We pitched our Diamond Shelter next to the port-a-pottys" ~ Billy Bob Rondy - 1992

...set up our elaborate fire irons, broke out a jug of Apple Pie and sang "Old Rocky-Top" while eating spaghetti out of a blue enamel-ware pot...

 

[Rod Lassey]

Excellent job, Albert---you took the time to look the references up, for the benefit of the rest of us. Great job, it should dispell a myth or two. :thumbsup:

Rod

 

[Black Hand]

Google Books is a wonderful thing.
I've got nearly 200 period references/journals/books saved in the computer and keep looking for more.

During the search, I was surprised by the number of references to "tents"...

 

[Poor Private]

I guess I will just take my 7'x7' tarp, that came of off a yankee covered supply wagon from the 5th corp and make a shebang out of it. And I think i will riase up a oppisite point and peg down the drooping edges. And lack of any other description I guess I will call it a diamond ten, or maybe just a bucket tent(since it rolls up and fits in a canvas bucket).

 

[Rod Lassey]

Once again, I am defeated by the grindingly slow colossus that is Midrivers dial-up internet. If and when we ever get a high speed connection, I'll be keeping googlebooks busy. 'Til then, I'll just keeping turning the pages the old-fashioned way.

Rod

 

[Black Hand]

Rod,
The next time I'm out your way, I'll bring my computer and you bring a Flash-drive.

Maybe you'll come out this way for a scout some day?
Albert

 

[Black Hand]

"While wandering about on his hunting expeditions the mountaineer ordinarily had no shelter but the sky and lay down to sleep in the open air. His bed consisted generally of a single buffalo robe, occasionally with leaves or boughs underneath. His saddle often did service as a pillow, while one or two blankets were his sole protection from the cold. In the winter season, or at other times when his business required a considerable sojourn in one place, he erected a rude hut for his better protection in either hot or cold weather. It was located near some stream where both grass and wood were plenty, and was formed of skins spread over an arched frame-work of saplings bent to a semicircle with their extremities inserted in the ground. His fire was built in front, and near by was a pole laden with the various meats which were his main reliance for food."
-The American Fur Trade in the Far West, Volume 1
Hiram Chittenden

 

[Claude Mathis]

"... was formed of skins spread over an arched frame-work of saplings bent to a semicircle with their extremities inserted in the ground. His fire was built in front, ...

It sounds a little like half of a wikiup frame?

 

[Black Hand]

Another description of similar:
"...others erected shantees, by means of slender sticks, planted in parallel rows five or six feet apart, and interwoven at the tops, so as to form an arch of suitable height, over which was spread a roofage of robes or blankets..."
-Rocky Mountain life
Rufus Sage 1857

"A light tent might also be taken if deemed necessary; though such an article is of little use. A robe and a blanket for bedding, four shirts and a single change of clothes are as much baggage as any individual should think of taking for his own use."
ibid

 

[crockett]

I think too much was read into my apparent aspect. Like most things in life there is a limit. Let's say that the frame of willow poles is lashed together but all the historical references say blankets or hides were draped over the framework. For argument's sake let's say someone does the same thing but drapes canvas- the idea being the canvas is a remnant from a tent that got torn apart in the wind, etc. Tent's were there- PC. The willow pole frame is PC- but the only reference to a covering is hides or blankets. Within such tight limits if someone used canvas- to me that would be okay even if there isn't actually a historical reference to it. If the poles were totally rearranged in a different manner- say like an Iroquois Long House-then that would (to me at least) be stretching the limits a bit too far.
I guess the point is- there are a few things without any documentation or maybe only one referenced source- pretty slim- and the problem is how to handle that. I'm open to what others feel on the subject.

 

[LaBonte]

Lower right corner has one of them as drawn by A. J. Miller circa 1837.. http://art.thewalters.org/webimages/PL1_37.1940.110_Fnt_TR_II.jpg

as for more on tents in the RM fur trade - mostly primary documentation with some secondary... http://www.google.com/cse?cx=001430202502149324205:ixsufj3grxk&q=tent&cof=FORID:0

as for no canvas tipis - using the same logic as used for the diamond shelter how do you know there weren't? The materials were widely available and IIRC they can be documented to at least circa 1851 - they show up in some of the photos taken at Ft Laramie that year during a treaty conference with several tribes and the US Army....

 

[Rifleman1776]

living in a lodge with no "modern" accoutrements at all and all by myself - well along with my dog, mule, and horse

Musta been an awful big lodge. Smelly too. :wink:

 

[tg]

I do not know how to get something like this right to suit the upper levels, the arch of saplings would need to be of a particular angle and the saplings of a particular type of wood and diameter and the exact distance apart and been cut with the proper tool of the time as per reference, one can chase that whole scenario down for quite a while before even worrying about what to cover the thing in....an exageration but does make a point as to when to stop so to speak when looking for "accuracy"

 

Well, I see I have asked a question that has much debate. Hope I did not get any feathers ruffled. I went ahead and purchased a 12X12 from RK Lodges. I did not go wrong there. Hope to see some of you out at a Rondy someday, or maybe on a hunt of a lifetime.
Aim small, miss small...

 

[Birdman]

Smokepole ain't no feathers ruffled that I can see. Yea we have to on occasion make allowences with what we use because it would not be economical or ethical in some ways to use what might be PC/HC. Trying to get enough birch bark(for example) to build a shelter wouldn't be very easy so we allow canvas to be used instead. Actually pretty much EVERY TENT out there is not correct because of the material its made from(depending of course on the time period). But in todays world we have to make exceptions, to a point. We try as best we can to emulate what was used but sometimes its just impossable to be COMPLETELY right. So ya just sort a look through rose colored glasses n have fun with it. -Just some thoughts YMHS Birdman ps. living history is fun to do, but living back then, nah, I'd most likely be dead already or so stove up I couldn't move. :shocked2:

 

I agree Birdman. I just want to enjoy, and do the best I can with what I can afford and have. We all need to get a long, and enjoy this sport we all love.
Aim small, miss small...