Mangled Patch Gallery - What to Do?

[Mattole]

Just came back from shooting my new Lyman Plains pistol. I have not been able to achieve any consistent accuracy at 25 yds yet, using any powder load, ranging from 20 to 40 grains of Pyrodex P. Here are the vital stats:

Caliber: .54
Ball: .535
Patch: Denim, thickness .011 (compressed reading)
Patch Lube: 1:7 Ballistol:Water, dried
Overpowder wad: wasp nesting, then for the last six shots I tried folded patch material.

The patch/ball combo needed a short starter to get past the muzzle but would load without much difficulty after that. No pounding the ball into a misshapen lump was involved.

Here are the patches from the last six times shooting:

It didn't seem to make a difference what the load or the overpowder material was in determining what the patch ended up looking like. Sometimes it would be relatively intact but still cut in one corner, at other times the center would be completely blown out.

From other posts I have read it seems like sharp rifling and/or a sharp crown are to blame. What do you think, and what would you suggest as a remedy? Many thanks.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I would recommend a brass bore brush and toothpaste. (that is right tootpaste ) to polish out any burrs on the crown or lands. Or if that doesn't work some automotive buffing coumpound. NOT LAPPING OR GRINDING coumpounds they are for cleaning up abused and rusted barrels never use them on a new barrel. Also it appears you have a burning problem as well, try a leather or felt over powder wad.Or even some corn meal buffer. :idunno: :idunno:

 

[Trench]

Does the Ballistol and water mixture protect the patch after it is dry? Seems like a totally dry patch would have a hard time keeping together.

 

[SgtSchutzen]

Try some thicker patches.

 

[rae]

I tried the polish but it did not work, overpowder wad or cornmeal buffer worked for me, I used felt with moose milk, or a 45ACP case full of cornmeal, works. did you try a max load yet? If so how does your middle finger feel?

 

[matt denison]

You didn't mentioin what powder you are using or how much.

 

[Mattole]

I use the same Ballistol:water treated patch for my GPR and do not have the same problem, even with heavy loads. On the other hand even a 20 grain load in the pistol blew the middle of the patch out, even with a folded up patch to act as an overpowder wad. Doesn't seem as though I have read of others having problems with their new Plains pistols. Maybe I'll have a gunsmith take a look down the barrel to see if the rifling is defective somehow.

 

[rae]

Both my 50 and 54 tear up patches unless i put a buffer over the powder, the 50 has over 300 rounds and the 54 is going over 200 rounds, the patches out of my 50 were shredded till I polished the barrel with 0000 steel wool. the burn through I was getting just as you are getting was cured with overpowder buffer(cornmeal). My loads are 777 3F and 2F, Goex 3F and 2F. without the meal 20 Grains of any of the aforementioned powders will burn through .016" patches with TOTW mink oil. Your results may very good luck.

 

[Mattole]

So I'm thinking that my muzzle crown is too sharp and that I need to use an over-powder buffer like corn meal. What should I use to tame the sharpness of the crown?

 

[Zonie]

The burn out tells me that dry patches can catch on fire. :hmm:
Even without seeing a burned out patch, logic tells me that dry cloth is not very flame resistant.

Having said that, my first suggestion would be to apply your patch lube right before loading.
The patch should be well dampened but not dripping wet. If you apply too much lube just squeeze it out with your fingers.

As for the few patches that have enough of them left to see what else is happening, I see some ripped places that were cut by the rifling.

Wrap some #00 or #000 steel wool wrapped around a cleaning jag.
Then run the steel wool/jag up and down the bore at least 100 times, stopping every 10-15 times to rotate the wool so that a unrubbed area will be contacting the rifling.

You won't see any significant change in the bore after doing this because the steel wool is about the same hardness as your bore so it won't remove hardly any material at all.
It will round over the sharp edges of the rifling grooves just enough so they are no longer "sharp knives". Rather, the edges of the rifling will become "dull knives" which aren't likely to cut the cloth.

While your playing with your pistol, get a piece of 120 or 180 grit wet/dry silicone carbide sandpaper.
Tear off a 1" X 1" piece. Lay this on the muzzle and press it into the bore with your thumb.

Now, rotate your thumb back and forth while you rotate the barrel either clockwise or counterclockwise.

This will dull the sharp edges where the rifling meets the muzzle. If you don't like the shiny look that will result from this, you can touch up the polished area with some cold gun bluing like Perma Blue.

If you do these things, I think your problems will be gone.

 

[nkbj]

OK, I'll ask a goofy question. Is that poly blend denim?

 

[necchi]

A couple of those don't look too bad, here's some from my rifle and the groups are just fine, these are .020 crushed Ballistol 1-7

 

[rae]

Mattole,I did as Zonie said to do with my bore and crown. By the way thanks Zonie, and I will try more lube on my patches hope that will cure the burn through.

 

[Mattole]

OK, I'll ask a goofy question. Is that poly blend denim?

Ha - never!

 

[BrownBear]

Based on my experience with new Lyman barrels and the photos of your patches, I'd almost bet money that you've got a real sharp edge on your crown.

I could do the same every single time with a tight patch if I was pushing sharply on the short starter or even slapping it to get the ball started. When I made sure the patch was started evenly with no wrinkles, then did a firm steady push till the ball started, I could cut down on the incidence of blown patches, but not entirely.

Based on advice from an experienced builder I laid a piece of 320 grit wet or dry paper on the muzzle, then pressed on it with the ball of my thumb and rotated the barrel completely a few times. The patches immediately started easier, and I never saw another blown patch. The thumb/paper just rounded the edge of the crown very slightly, but it was enough to do away with the sharpness and patch cutting.

 

[Mattole]

Thanks gentlemen for your suggestions - I really appreciate it. Zonie, I have heard some folks say to avoid steel wool and use Scotch-Brite instead. Do you have any thoughts on this?

 

[Nappers]

When I got my new trapper model traditions pistol a buddy at work told me to clean as if I had shot it, including running some stainless steel scrubber on a jag. When I did that I felt some catching and then smooth... It shot awesome and patches just a tiny bit frayed..... Buddy has years of ML experience. Seemed to work great!

Have fun.

Just a note, I used enough scrubber to wrap the jag and wasn't too aggressive...

 

[Zonie]

After doing some web surfing I found an interesting link that shows what the abrasive is in Scotch Brite pads.

Depending on the pad it can be Silicone Carbide (the same thing that is on the black wet/dry sandpaper and one of the hardest man made materials known except for man made diamonds), or Aluminum Oxide (the stuff many grinding wheels and sand papers are made from).

Those of you who have an Adobe reader in your computer may want to download this pdf link
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...sg=AFQjCNG30e-0z5m2hqA5jm3O4kpaLCBWkA&cad=rja

Getting back to the question about comparing Scotch-Brite with steel wool, Silicone Carbide and Aluminum Oxide are both much harder than steel so they will both cut it.
Using either material is about the same as sanding the metal part.

Steel wool like I mentioned is made out of steel that is about the same hardness as a muzzleloaders barrel so using it will remove less material. It is almost like burnishing the surface of the barrel.
IMO that makes it a slower more easily controlled polishing process.
That is not to say that very fine abrasives like the fine grades of Scotch-Brite have should not be used.
They would be faster than steel wool.

One of the things I learned years ago while building muzzleloaders is, "Faster is not necessary better." Sometimes by slowly sneaking up on the objective produces a better result.