Making original gun safe and shootable

[Comfortably_Numb]

I have shot damascus barrels for 43 years. No problems. Of course I don't shoot rusty old crappy guns either.

 

[kansas_volunteer]

I'm interested in old rifles.i don't think I'm good enough with a shotgun to do anything much with them but lean them in the corner. I don't actually want to make old rifles exactly new again. What I would want them to do is be shootable again, like a new rifle. I wouldn't want to shoot anything but mild loads. I know I've read about replacing drums and nipples. If an old barrel is shootable might the drum possibly be a weak link? Perhaps the old nipple is too battered to accept a cap, would a new nipple be a sin?

 

[Rich44]

You’ll need a lathe so you can make parts to match the old parts rather then re-fitting the old gun to modern parts. Old guns need to be restored not up graded. If that isn’t of interest to you then build a bench copy to shoot and keep the old gun as is for its own history.

A lathe was mentioned by Phil. The fact that you want to get interested in older guns a small lathe really makes a good choice. I take for granted that since you wish to get involved in fixing old guns you have some mechanical skills. But it takes more than just a lathe; you need the skill or training to use it. My skills on a lathe came from a extremely strong desire to be able to make things for myself. Reading books on how to run a lathe. Later in life I served an apprentice for Tool&Die. I was really able to shine on the lathe do to dedication. Have had a lathe for over 65 years and would not want to think how life would be without one, it is really that much of my life to be able to make just about anything I want. If you can get a small second hand lathe and learn to use it would be hard for me to believe that it would not be worth its weight in gold for a vast amount of different jobs. For the people that say I wish I had a lathe, stop talking about it and get one.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

My advice is to get someone who knows what they are doing. Semper Fi.

 

[flintlock lover.]

Most of it depends on the condition the gun is in, to begin with. I've brought several original guns back to shooting condition. Mainly I don't buy the ones that are basically trashed, The bore seems to be the main issue with most of them. I'm working on one now that was in pretty good shape considering its 170 years old.
I just talked to Bobby Hoyt this morning about a rebore, so it's off to him for that.
But you have to consider the additional cost of something like this.

I have a few original 1760's to 1890 firearms that I do shoot. Years in military service having sort of ruined my enjoyment of shooting most "modern firearms".
I just can't look through any form scope at anything I plan to eat.
Those antique guns that I do shoot have been extensively examined, bore scoped, magnafluxed, rebuilt, rebored, re-rifled (I have to thank Romano rifles in NY for his fabulous work on my barrels) where needed not just by my eyes but by other professionals who have equipment that I no longer own or in some cases never could afford.
I can't speak for other folks here but for me using a gun built between 200+ or 124 years ago to hunt with or target shoot with has emotional rewards that out weight the cost of remanufacturing / devaluing (?) the few guns I choose to go this route with.
The cost to do this is high but then so is the feeling of reward at taking game with a firearm like my original factory produced Spencer Sporting Rifle, where literally I have to make or design every component to use it, from the mold for it's heeled 327gr bullet (thank you Accurate Molds for working on that with me) to cutting / reshaping 50/70 brass to fit it's uncommon 56-46 long Springfield Armory designed chamber.
I do own a few "reproduction" and contemporary hand manufactured firearms.
But we all have something that gives us an otherwise unattainable feeling of accomplishment that in some way
helps make getting up in the morning still worth the effort.
But then, I also make all my archery bows, arrows, fletching (from my heritage turkeys and geese) make fish/hoof glue for putting it all together.
My hunting clothes and gear from what I killed in the past years too, so maybe I'm just a bit of a freaking weird ass.

 

[sheriff john]

Several have talked about metal parts, but condition of the wood is also important. Old wood can be ok or quite weak. Old repairs using the "glue of the day" have been problematic for me as have oil-soaked areas.

 

[64Springer]

I have a few original 1760's to 1890 firearms that I do shoot. Years in military service having sort of ruined my enjoyment of shooting most "modern firearms".
I just can't look through any form scope at anything I plan to eat.
Those antique guns that I do shoot have been extensively examined, bore scoped, magnafluxed, rebuilt, rebored, re-rifled (I have to thank Romano rifles in NY for his fabulous work on my barrels) where needed not just by my eyes but by other professionals who have equipment that I no longer own or in some cases never could afford.
I can't speak for other folks here but for me using a gun built between 200+ or 124 years ago to hunt with or target shoot with has emotional rewards that out weight the cost of remanufacturing / devaluing (?) the few guns I choose to go this route with.
The cost to do this is high but then so is the feeling of reward at taking game with a firearm like my original factory produced Spencer Sporting Rifle, where literally I have to make or design every component to use it, from the mold for it's heeled 327gr bullet (thank you Accurate Molds for working on that with me) to cutting / reshaping 50/70 brass to fit it's uncommon 56-46 long Springfield Armory designed chamber.
I do own a few "reproduction" and contemporary hand manufactured firearms.
But we all have something that gives us an otherwise unattainable feeling of accomplishment that in some way
helps make getting up in the morning still worth the effort.
But then, I also make all my archery bows, arrows, fletching (from my heritage turkeys and geese) make fish/hoof glue for putting it all together.
My hunting clothes and gear from what I killed in the past years too, so maybe I'm just a bit of a freaking weird ass.View attachment 188924

Me me me metallic C c c cartridges....

 

[flintlock lover.]

Me me me metallic C c c cartridges....

What part of 1760- and flintlock lover did you miss?
If your intention is to discourage people from joining in the conversation, you're doing a good job.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Me me me metallic C c c cartridges....

Metalic cart's need to be reloaded also. Semper Fi.

 

[64Springer]

What part of 1760- and flintlock lover did you miss?
If your intention is to discourage people from joining in the conversation, you're doing a good job.

My intention was to applaud you. I was enjoying your cartridge gun. It looks great.

I thought the giant letters, over the top sarcasm and guy grabbing his face in horror was a way of gently mocking the people who would say metallic cartridge guns are not allowed.

And I don't have the power to keep people from following your thread.

Have a nice evening.

 

[Relic shooter]

~TIPS ON BUYING ORIGINAL FIREARMS~
I've collected and shot a wide variety of original flint & percussion rifles, pistols & revolvers in competition for 65+ years.

Yes I admit @ 81 I'm now over the hill but still able to shoot my quality vintage handguns Due to age infirmities my remaining long guns will be posted soon on the forum first in hopes a hunter or competitor wants them & if no takers off to auction..

On my shooter/ keepers I've always replaced the nipples on all percussion guns regardless of how nice of condition they are for safety & accuracy reasons with top quality replacements. I usually use nipples mfg. by Treso because of their small base hole that provides faster ignition, more consistent pressures & tighter groups.
On some of my originals I've often been able to find replacement nipples with with matching threads, on others I re-thread to the next size up.

Being a competitor & collector I only bought guns that were in excellent condition with solid wood & have bores & rifling in condition that I'm sure will be excellent performers.

**Unless you are already a good machinist & wood worker I would not recommend trying to turn a relic condition gun into a shooter for THREE reasons.
*One: is if the barrel & breach is in rough condition the laminated barrel & breech might not ever be safe to shoot unless your willing to spend much more to reline or replace than the relic will ever be worth when done. Completely rehabilitated original firearms have little to zero collectable value, especially when dealing with collectors who use them only for display.

*Two: If condition of the lock & wood is in rough shape, the costs to make them shooters is also likely to far exceed their value.
Unless your very skilled at buying original antique firearms It's usually best to buy from a seller / collector who can show you that the gun is safe & solid & will fit your needs if your a shooter..

*Three; Don't overpay, unlike custom or repos, buying an original firearm can be an excellent investment that will appreciate in value.
>Yes; over the years some repro guns have appreciated due to being out of production & becoming rare but they are an exception.

In many cases a very nice quality original can be bought for less than a custom made replica,, unless your wanting a very ornate or mint condition firearm.
Just my two-bits, happy hunting !
Relic shooter

 

[TDM]

Sound advice @Relic shooter.

 

[French Colonial]

I have shot several damascus twist barrel guns and never had a problem, give it a good inspection with a bore scope if needed (a small flash light on shot guns work) and if you don't see any major pits or rusting start shooting it, using appropriate BP loads.

Damascus twist barrels were more expensive and considered better than fluid steel in the late 1800's, people trying to turn them in to magnum goose guns was the problem, they did the same thing with old colts when they started putting heavy loads of smokeless through them.

I have never understood the fear of shooting a good quality gun that is in good condition using loads they were designed for.

 

[Relic shooter]

Sound advice @Relic shooter.

Thanks TDM,
Providing some tips & advice to newer shooters is about all us old timers have to offer.
Back in my 20s I thought I knew everything, some old timers at Friendship & other ML shoots were kind enough to show me otherwise.
Many of us oldies have had great troubles accepting that our worn out chassis are unable to keep up with our addictions to hunting & competing

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

I have a handful of originals that are good shooters, and Relic Shooter hit the nail on the head with his reply, in every regard.

After you buy/trade a few, you kinda learn what to look for, what to steer away from, what to RUN AWAY from.

I have found that these are the primary things that I look for:

a solid, correctly functioning lock and trigger(s)

a VG to VG+ (or better) bore,

Solid wood with no running cracks in the buttstock or wrist. If the wood has been repaired in such a place, it has to be SOLID.

I will remove the nipple for a visual inspection into the drum. I will ALWAYS replace the nipple, and will replace the drum only if it is cracked, or if the nipple threads are in rough shape.

I have a blast bringing these old rifles back from the dead.

 

[TDM]

Thanks TDM,
Providing some tips & advice to newer shooters is about all us old timers have to offer.
Back in my 20s I thought I knew everything, some old timers at Friendship & other ML shoots were kind enough to show me otherwise.
Many of us oldies have had great troubles accepting that our worn out chassis are unable to keep up with our addictions to hunting & competing

I agree, I’m only a few steps behind you. But your knowledge and the knowledge of other “oldies” here are priceless.

 

[Relic shooter]

I agree, I’m only a few steps behind you. But your knowledge and the knowledge of other “oldies” here are priceless.

We're fortunate to have this fantastic forum with so many knowledgeable members who are willing to share their individual areas of expertise.
Helping new members resolve problems & get more enjoyment is the best way to keep our historical sport alive.
I've learned a few new gunsmithing tricks from the younger crowd & should have joined years ago when I was still an active competitor.
Relic shooter

 

[TDM]

We're fortunate to have this fantastic forum with so many knowledgeable members who are willing to share their individual areas of expertise.
Helping new members resolve problems & get more enjoyment is the best way to keep our historical sport alive.
I've learned a few new gunsmithing tricks from the younger crowd & should have joined years ago when I was still an active competitor.
Relic shooter

Same here, I used the forum as a resource for many years before I finally took the time to join.

 

[Relic shooter]

I'm interested in old rifles.i don't think I'm good enough with a shotgun to do anything much with them but lean them in the corner. I don't actually want to make old rifles exactly new again. What I would want them to do is be shootable again, like a new rifle. I wouldn't want to shoot anything but mild loads. I know I've read about replacing drums and nipples. If an old barrel is shootable might the drum possibly be a weak link? Perhaps the old nipple is too battered to accept a cap, would a new nipple be a sin?

After collecting & shooting primarily original flint & percussion firearms or ones I've built or restored for over 60 years, in my opinion & those of friends replacing nipples on any original or any abused used firearm is a must for safety & accuracy reasons as I don't own wall hangers, all are shooters.

Any mint or near mint condition firearms I've acquired in collections I sell to collectors who just display them, as shooting a mint or near mint specimen will likely devalue the firearm considerably.
Generally speaking, the only folks who object to replacing nipples that I've run into over the years are collectors who do not shoot.
Owning & shooting original firearms that reflects dings & wear of the period provides us history buffs with an unbeatable connection.
Hasn't been a bad investment strategy either and that pleases my wife.

If you lack the skills to properly evaluate the shooting safety of an original firearm consider buying from a well experienced forum member or knowledgeable collector-shooter seller with a good reputation..
Just my two bits..
Relic shooter