How much shot to use

[dukewellington]

I have a 45cal smooth-rifle that I intend to fire shot from. About a teaspoon of no.3 okay?
I just wan't to keep it safe

Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

.45 cal is about a 54 gauge. When in doubt use the same weight of shot as a single round ball weighs. Soooo, you're looking at maybe 3/8 oz of shot (actually works out to 9.3/32nds of an ounce).

 

[CZMark]

A "typical" .410 (41 caliber) shotshell contains 1/2 ounce of shot, I would think you could use at least that much.

A 3" .410 contains about 11/16 ounce of shot.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Smoothrifles were often built in rather small bores, lots were under .50 caliber and I've seen some as small as .40 caliber. I've often thought it might be interesting to find out just how useful those small smoothbores could be but never felt I could justify the expense of building a gun just to find out it might not be good for much at all. :haha:
Stumpy is correct that the normal shot load was about the same weight as a round ball but the shot weight was rounded off to the nearest 1/8th ounce. With larger bores it was customary to round down to the nearest 1/8th and with smaller bores they rounded up, 16 gage being the medium where the one ounce load was exactly the same as the ball weight. I think you should be fine with 1/2 ounce but I would certainly recommend small shot sizes simply because you won't get enough pellets to form an effective pattern with anything larger than #6 shot and #7 1/2 would be better for the 20 yards which will likely be your maximum range. I sometimes hunt grouse and rabbits with a modern .410 pistol and have found 7 1/2 shot to be about optimum for that, deadly to 25 yards.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

"About a teaspoon" seems rather imprecise. I would suggest picking a weight and using your powder measure to measure it, per the table in the forum's "Members' Resources".

#3 shot would be a rather large size for the small shot charge likely usable in this rather small bore. Depending on what you are thinking of shooting, and at what ranges, you might want to consider using smaller shot to get more pellets in the pattern. On another point, one has to be careful when discussing shot size on international forums. U.K #3 is about the same as U.S. #4. It is generally preferable to also specify shot dimension or weight to prevent confusion.

Joel

 

[dukewellington]

If I were to use no.6 size shot, how many pellets should I load. Juts to get an idea.

 

[poordevil]

I am trying to remember this without looking it up...I think one OZ of US #6 shot is about 216 pellets(?) Less than 300 I am pretty sure. So take away from that.

Good luck. It sounds like you have a real fun gun there. And good going shooting in the UK. I know it is not easy

P

 

[tg]

I try to find the heaviest bullet madre fotr the caliber and use that as a guideline for the weight of the shot charge, usually a bit less of shot than the bullet weight to allow for the wads.This may not give the best patter though you may have to juggle things around to get a good balance of shot and pattern the smaller bores will string longer with shot loads greater than their cartridge cousins whch is what the bullet weight method usually gives.

 

[roundball]

Here's a chart that may be of some related interest to the discussion of shot...
http://www.hallowellco.com/shot_size_chart.htm

 

[paulvallandigham]

My charts show #6 shot will have 225 pellets per ounce. #7 1/2 shot will have 350 pellets to the ounce.

I also agree that you should consider using the smaller shot- #7 1/2-- in your small bore, so that the pellet count is high enough to give a good pattern at 20-25 yds. FYI, #8 shot has 410 pellets to the ounce.

You want to stay around 1/2 ounce of shot, regardless of the size shot you choose to use. To figure out how many pellets will be in your load, just divide that one ounce pellet count by 2 to get the approx. number of pellets in a 1/2 oz. load.

As with the modern 410 shotgun shell, you can play around with increasing the volumn of shot used, to increase the number of pellets in your pattern. But, don't overdo it. Your small bore is what it is- and its not going to grow into some 10 gauge shotgun! 1/2- 5/8 oz of shot is about what you can expect to shoot from the gun. Without knowing and seeing the gun you have, I would be hesitant to suggest you shoot any more shot in the gun.

This is a short range gun- good for rabbits, squirrels, and small birds that you can get near. I have a boyhood friend who was good enough with his .410 to kill pheasants with head shot. But, he was a rare shooter. Another friend took up a challenge to use only his .410 Db shotgun for an entire Dove season, and managed to kill 63 dove that year. I hunted one afternoon with him, and he never fired at a dove that was beyond 20 yards. Many were passing overhead at 3 yards, and a lot of his passing shots were at 10 yards or less. He was very good. But he would be the first to tell you that he could not expect to kill doves out at 30 yards, with that .410- at least not on a regular basis.

Good hunting.

 

[Britsmoothy]

If it was my choice I'd go with English 7s which I think our cousins call no6s and experiment around 1/2 to 3/4 oz loads around equal charges or slightly less.

Brit.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

If it was my choice I'd go with English 7s which I think our cousins call no6s...

Actually, the number-difference goes the other way - the equivalent West-of-the-Atlantic size would be #8s, according to the Hallowell table.

Joel

 

[trent/OH]

Get some #12 shot and you'll have a jim-dandy late summer grasshopper and butterfly gun!

 

[musketman]

If I were to use no.6 size shot, how many pellets should I load. Juts to get an idea.

One thing you could do is use your powder measure for both powder and shot weights (by volume).

If you (for example) use 60 grains of powder, then measure out the shot on the same setting. Do not pack it in the measurer, just fill it up and level it off and you are good to go...

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Good point Musketman, although I'd probably start with 40 grains. The smallest smoothbore I've ever shot was a 32 gauge and I used a .45 Colt cartridge case to measure both powder and shot.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thanks Joe but that has me confused some. I allways thought your 71/2 were the same as ours. If so your 8s would be and are smaller than our 7s, no? :hmm:

Brit.

 

[Zonie]

I don't know where Dixie got its information but one of their old catalogs gives this for a shot size comparison:

#4 American = #3 English = #4 German & French = .13 inch diameter

#5 American = #4 English = #5 German & French = .12 inch diameter

#6 American = #5 English = #6 German & French = .11 inch diameter

#7 American = #6 English = #7 German & French = .10 inch diameter

#7 1/2 American = no English, German or French equivalent = .095 diameter

#8 American = #7 English = #8 German & French = .09 inch diameter

#8 1/2 American = #8 English + no German & French equivalent = .085 inch diameter

#9 American = #9 English = #9 German & French = .08 inch diameter

The same catalog indicates the proper shotgun load for a .410 is 1/2 ounce of shot.
Yes, modern .410's use heavier loads but then, we are not trying to duplicate modern guns with our muzzleloaders are we?

 

[paulvallandigham]

The American System follows the " RULE OF 17". I have never understood either that English System or the European system of measuring shot. Not even converting these measurements to metric explains the differences.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thanks for that and I appologise to Joe for questioning him :hatsoff:

Brit.

 

[roundball]

Yes, modern .410's use heavier loads but then, we are not trying to duplicate modern guns with our muzzleloaders are we?

Well...just a little different angle as more food for thought...modern .410s are modern in both cases. The 2 different over the counter .410 shot loads are 1/2oz and 9/16oz...both are modern .410 loads so if one cannot be duplicated because its modern I'm not sure how the other one can. Also, it may well be that the data in that catalog is simply real old and it didn't list the 9/16oz load.

Since primary thoughts are about pressure, then followed closely by performance, how much does a 1/2 or 9/16oz volumetric load of lead shot actually weigh?
And actual weight of each shot charge will vary all over of course, with different physical size shot and correspondingly different amounts of empty air space between all the pellets.

Muzzleloaders operating with slower burning powders, much lower pressures, no shot cups, and no chokes is why the old saying still survives today: "little powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead"

Depending on if skeet, trap, turkey, squirrels, no shot cup and no choke, I don't always load a good quality BP smoothbore with the same shot charges typically found in the modern shotshell world...apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

EXAMPLE: 15/16" x .54cal(.28ga) GM Flint cylinder bore smoothbore barrel:
Skeet = 60grns 3F & 7/8oz #9s
Trap = 70grns 3F & 1.0oz #8s
Squirrels = 70grns 3F & 1+3/8oz #5s
Turkey = 70grns 3F & 1+3/8oz #6s

PS:
In our liability concious, sue at the drop of a hat world, my disclaimer is:
"Now don't you kids try this at home"
:wink: