HERB..JUST FOR YOU

[Pete Gaimari]

I ran out of BP, and just bought some Pyrodex. I just bought a new gun (to me), and I have to shoot it tomorrow.

It better work, or i'll hunt you down. :grin:

I bought some CCI magnum caps just in case.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

which rifle did you buy?

 

[kelleyjk]

And now, we can get an unbiased opinon on the performance of substitpoop :rotf:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

which rifle did you buy?

I was going to buy a .54 cal Renegade with a GM 32" PRB barrel. It was well used with browned parts. I really hate to buy a gun I can't see the bore on, and changed my mind. It was on Gunbroker auction.

So, my local gun shop had a .54 cal Renegade in nice shape. I bought it, and figured I can add another barrel myself. I like the shorter barrels a little better for hunting. I'm thinking of shooting some competition in the spring. So, i'll get a longer slow twist barrel for that.

I heard it's hard to get a GM barrel now?

 

[Pete Gaimari]

And now, we can get an unbiased opinon on the performance of substitpoop :rotf:

I'm trying to keep an open mind. The poopy stuff only cost me $17 lb. No shipping. No Hazmat, and I can buy just 1 lb. Not too hard to take.

At least it smells like BP. :grin:

 

[Herb]

Ah, Capper! I don't even know what a Renegade is, but I don't guess you need any help with it. Even I bought some Pyrodex RS today, Wal Mart, $15 on sale. I needed to check weigh the charges I mentioned in the Pyrodex thread and had used up all my old RS. I said that an 80 grain volume charge weighed 74 grains, but that was really based on a 100 grain volume charge. Not that I need it - I have almost 50 pounds of Goex and Swiss on hand. But thanks for thinking of me!

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I want to try the gun out and Pyro was easy to get. It's going to have to perform really good to keep me from ordering more Goex. I'm going to get away from Swiss. It cost too much for what I get out of it. It's nice powder though. I thought you'd get a kick out of seeing me use Pyro after all the grief I gave you about it.

A Renegade was made by Thompson. It's a short barreled Hawken style gun. I plan on putting a longer 32" GM barrel on it if I can find one.

Kind of a poor mans Hawken. :idunno:

 

[Bill Hall]

Even if you like it, you got to call it crapodex at least once, for old time's sake. Bill

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I thought poopy stuff was a bit kinder.

Since i'll be shooting some competition now I was thinking of getting the Goex select...express..?? Whatever it's called. It cost as much as Swiss.

Probably be shooting lighter loads. .54 cal...60gr? Maybe I should go with 3f instead of my normal 2F. I'm thinking it will burn more complete. Wouldn't that be more consistent?

 

[goody]

Welcome back Capper.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Thanks.

 

[Zonie]

Good luck to you and your new gun.

As your well aware, Pyrodex does have its inherent faults like an occasional delay when compared with real black powder. The Magnum caps will help eliminate this to the point that you may never notice it at all.

Another thing I've found with Pyrodex is the first shot does lightly foul the bore but, without any wiping at all, the fouling never seems to get worse. The 30th shot will load just like the second shot did.

I've shot over 50 rounds in a row without wiping the bore even once and the 50th loaded just like the 2nd did which is about like the second shot using real black powder.

You might also notice that although Pyrodex is sold by the pound, one pound of Pyrodex takes up 30% more volume.
Because you use the same powder measure as you use with black powder to measure out your powder charge you will get 30% more shots per pound.

Now, I'm not saying Pyrodex is better than real black powder. It is not. But, it does have a few advantages like lower cost and more shots per pound.

Have fun with it and if you decide you still don't like it it will work great in your revolvers.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Thanks for info Zonie.

I did go shoot the gun today. I thought I was going to freeze. My hands got so cold I couldn't put a cap on. I kept dropping them, because I couldn't feel them. I forgot my capper.

Ok, on to the powder. First let me say the gun came with a box of goodies. A really cool powder measure that i've never seen before. I'll talk about it later. It was set at 60gr, so I figure that's what the previous owner used. There was also a new bottle of T7 2F in the box too. I had my doubts about T7 working, but I brought it to the range anyway.
This was my first .54 cal, so I didn't know what to expect from recoil. I started with 60 gr of Pyro 2f. It went bang right away with almost no recoil. 2" off the bull at 25yds. Swabbed between every shot with one spit patch and two dries. All shots touching for two more shots. The next shot had a delay. Not happy. Cleaned the bore, picked the nipple and shot a cap off. It seemed clear with a puff of dust on the ground. Next two shots touching, and the next had a delay. Not happy again.

Cleaned, picked, and shot cap again. Just for laughs I thought i'd try the T7. Same 60 gr. I was surprised it fired with no delay. Harder recoil and shot a little high. Two more shots with same result. Next shot bad delay.

The rest of the day was about the same deal. I increased the load to 70gr and then 80 gr. I never had a delay after picking the nipple and shoot a cap. They always came after a couple of shots. Another thing that seemed strange is when I swabbed the bore. They both seemed about as dirty. I would have thought the T7 would be cleaner.

Accuracy seemed equal which again surprised me. I thought the T7 would be more accurate. The only difference between the powders was recoil. The T7 had a sharp punch. The Pyro felt like real BP...a push.

I'm not sure what to make of this. I wish I has some BP to compare. Being a new gun to me. I don't know whether to blame the gun or the powder for the delays.

I really like the gun. It will be a keeper for my hunting. It's my first experience with a set trigger too. I really like the light pull when it's set.

I've never gotten a delay in my C&B with Pyro, but they have a more direct center fire ignition.

I'm thinking I won't get any delays with real BP in my Renegade. Plus the recoil will be even softer, and I can use 90 gr for hunting elk.

edit..I forgot to add. I went out to 50 and 75 yds and the same results. The gun is very accurate along with both powders.

 

[Josh Smith]

I did some ongoing research with the Pyrodex, Cap'.

Fell in with a group of people who do a bit of safe experimentation.

Since 5gns black can be used as a booster charge, according to these folks, the stuff can be mixed 1:10 black/Pyro and stored.

I saw them do it. Then I tried it. Worked great. No delays at all, and it seemed more energetic and a bit cleaner than black. No swabbing required.

According to the going theory, delays are caused by the fact that Pyrodex burns, while black explodes. With a cautious mix a few kernels of 2Fg in with Pyrodex RS, the 2Fg catches the spark from the cap and ignites consistently, but the individual kernels are not close enough to each other to create an explosion. It just helps the Pyrodex burn, and Pyrodex is close enough to real black that it doesn't matter if the two are mixed.

Folks are hesitant to use it on T7 but allow it would likely work. BH209 is a different animal altogether, as is the vitamin c based stuff, so we're simply not going there.

I don't recommend anyone try this. I'm learning from a group of folks who think like me -- we're all a bit nutz. Pyrodex says the booster charge is safe, but says nothing about mixing the booster charge with the Pyrodex. Be safe.

The 1:10 Pyrodex is being stored (doesn't seem to be unstable in storage if there's a booster charge in it for some reason or another we're still exploring). I still use Goex 2Fg for regular shooting.

Josh

 

[Pete Gaimari]

You should know how i'm going to respond to your post Josh.

I know you can prime any powder (even BH 209) with BP to get it to work. That's not my style.

I like to keep things simple. If it takes BP to get a powder to work. Why use anything but BP?

I'm going to shoot BP. The only difference is i'm going to switch from Swiss to Goex. I'll be doing a lot more paper punching this year, and I need to save some money.

I'll be joining a club and going to shoots. I'd be embarrassed to use anything but real BP.

 

[R.M.]

Change out the nipple. I'd bet that'll cure your problems.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I was going to do that. It looks like a Treso on it now. Maybe the hole is too small.

I like the Treso nipples on my C&B's, because it keeps the caps from blowing off. It doesn't seem to be the hot tip for sidelocks though.

 

[R.M.]

Well, that blows that theory. I believe the Ampco nipples are the best, and there's no need to open them up. They're made that way for a reason. They wear out by eroding the hole out, no need to help the process along.
I was thinking it was probably a factory nipple, which are normally of poor design.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

What's confusing is the previous owner used the nipple on the gun. He also used T7 powder. The box had a bunch of speedloaders with T7 in them.

Either he dealt with delays, or i'm doing something wrong.

I think an order of BP will solve my problems.

 

[buttonbuck]

I used to shoot clean shot I think american pioneer replaced it. I may be mistaken but AP evolved into T7? Anyway I shoot Goex mostly and have some Graff and Sons that does well. I shoot 70 gr 3f goex for round balls in my 54 renegade as a hunting load and 60 of 3f for off hand shooting. I use the 2f if I was to shoot conicals. I had the same delays and such with pyrodex and AP especially if I had stored it in speed loaders for a while. I will stick to Real Black and such. I have been told that Pyrodex can be more corrosive than real black powder.