Had a couple of weird flyers today...

[SgtErv]

So I've got my Isaac Haines .50 cal sighted in finally. It's a slow process with a file. It's good to go!

I'm shooting a Golden Age Siler lock, .50 cal Rice barrel, washed .018 pillow ticking, and using TOTW mink oil tallow to lube one side of the patch. I use a .490 Hornady ball and 50 grains of Goex 3F. This load and patch/ball combo was worked up over the course of a few months, and is giving me 1 1/2" groups @25 yards bench supported when I'm nailing them.

I shot pretty well today, for the most part, except a couple of weird flyers. When I say flyer, I mean, off the paper at 25 yard head scratching flyer. Those shots sounded strange, shallower or hollow sounding. A "thock" instead of a "crack." Out of five strings of five shots, this happened twice.

None of my recovered patches were in bad shape. No tearing, scorch marks, nada. Could have almost reused them.

The only thing I can think is happening is that those shots had patches that could have been over-lubed.

What do you guys think? This happened to anyone before?

 

[Gene L]

Are you sure the ball was down on the powder? Maybe a wet patch could have retarded the firing.

Heck, I don't know. That's a pretty big flyer.

 

[BrownBear]

...shots sounded strange, shallower or hollow sounding. A "thock" instead of a "crack." Out of five strings of five shots, this happened twice.

Sounds like wonky ignition, from whatever source.

 

[SgtErv]

Every shot I reference the witness mark. Fairly paranoid about that.

I agree. Big flyer.

Wonky ignition...you mean like main charge ignition, right? The usual "crack" I'm referring to usually tells me I have a good gas seal. When I first started shooting this rifle I used thinner patches and it didn't sound quite like that. Less sharpness to it, but not as dull as the flyers today. Those sounded almost like a smoothbore with paper cartridges

I'm glad I've at least got a couple other people puzzled lol

 

[Joe B.]

Ever dump the powder out of an adjustable measure only to find out not all of it got dumped into the gun?

 

[don hepler]

How did it feel when you loaded it? Was it tight when it went down the barrel?

Something that I had happen, just last week, was when I closed the funnel part on my clear plastic measure, it was not lined up, and at lot of the powder went on the ground. It happen a couple times, but lucky, I saw it spilling out.

 

[SgtErv]

It was pretty normal going down, as smooth as .018 patch and a .490 ball does.

Either of these scenarios are possible. I was also using out the remainder of a bear empty can of 3F, too.

Maybe some of the powder got mixed in wth an excess amount of lube, so the remaining was like aN uneven squib load. When it happened each time I wiped the bore well before reloading and noticed a bunch of crud. :idunno:

 

[gwalker]

It sounds more like you forgot to put a ball/patch down the bore after loading your powder...

 

[SgtErv]

I'm pretty sure I did load the ball and patch...but given my description, that sounds pretty likely

 

[Loyalist Dave]

If you are getting a very different sound and those are producing your "fliers", then it is a main charge problem.

In a rifle, even when shooting a blank, you're going to get a pretty big bang even when using light charges such as 50 grains. The only difference would be a "slightly" different sound, and possibly not even that. You can easily check...simply, deliberately load only the powder, and test fire that and see if it's the same sound.

So if you're getting good bangs and recoil, and then you get a "fooomp"-like lesser bang...., your main charge is mostly not igniting OR burning very poorly.

On the range, I use spit for my patch. Once the rifle is sighted in, I try a couple of patches with my beeswax/olive oil lube to ensure that there isn't a drastic difference (and there shouldn't be) between the spit patch and the lubed patch. If I want to continue to shoot, I go back to spit. If I'm just plinking or in a basic match, I use spit.

I also ensure that I clean and dry the bore very well prior to those final two "confirmation shots" that I take with the lubed patches. I use the lubed patches when hunting to prevent moisture in poor weather that may get down the bore, from soaking the patch and getting to the main charge. Also I think that a spit patch sitting on the charge more than a few minutes might be a problem...even when the weather's good.

That means when hunting, that I load a very clean barrel with the first shot of the day, and I try to check my rifle with the same type of shot. I won't be using a slightly fouled barrel when hunting deer..., and (imho) the folks that have to "foul" their barrels before loading for hunting to get the best shot, need to work on patch and ball combinations.

So I think you are correct and your lube is fouling your main charge, in some manner. Remember your barrel is warming when you fire and that thick grease may soften quite a bit. You may be mixing it with your next powder load if there is residual lube in the barrel when you load your next shot. You may find you need to swab a lot between shots, and after every shot.

LD

 

[SgtErv]

My usual method is to wipe after every string of five. However, I think I know what I did differently. Usually I'll wipe the greased patch on my pant leg just before loading to dry off the excess that may have been pressed in while it was in the cap tin. I didn't do that on this last trip.

Given that my shot sounded more akin to shooting out a dry ball, almost guarantee that most of the charge had been spoiled. Mink oil gets runny when hot, too, so could've melted into the charge.

Lesson learned. Use lube sparingly. Not that it hasn't been said a thousand times lol.

On another note, upon closer examination of one of the targets...it turns out I did hit, just in between two other shots and barely visible. Still totally missed one though.

Thanks for the input folks!

 

[Rifleman1776]

So I've got my Isaac Haines .50 cal sighted in finally. It's a slow process with a file. It's good to go!

:shake: No-No. You should sight in by varying your charges and leaving the sights alone until you find your 'sweet spot' for charge, ball, patch and lube.
As for your question, all of the responses are on spot. Do have an experienced shooter watch you while loading and you must work up a routine.

 

[Gene L]

Only if the rifle is shooting more or less the proper elevation. Some Factory guns intentionally have a tall sight and you've got to file it down...too much elevation for the bullet strike to depend on loads. I'm talking about 8" low on the Cabela's Blue Ridge rifle I have when I first shot it. And that's at 25 yards.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Just wondering have you tried going up in the powder charge or is this the best load you have found you and your gun will shoot? You plan on hunting with that load? I know it will work at close range but might want to bump up the powder charge 10-20 grains for the added comfort level. Dan.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Some Factory guns intentionally have a tall sight and you've got to file it down..

That is true but it has nothing to do with finding your best load and best groups. After you find that combo then some sight work is justified. Shooting 1 1/2" groups at 25 yards is pretty poor results. You need to put your targets out to 50 yards and work up your best/most accurate load possible before you do anything else.

 

[Gene L]

We'll have to disagree on that one. I work up a load close in (25 yards) and then stretch it out. Like I do with a cartridge gun. No off-hand shooting for zero. I want to cancel as many variables as I can.

Of course, this thread wasn't about best loads and best groups. That would make another good thread, though.

 

[SgtErv]

I tried several different variations of load size, patch thickness, and different lubes. (2F, 3F, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70. 50 grains of 3F is what I'm getting the best groups with, by far. Not planning on hunting with it, so that'll do ok for me. It shoots tolerable groups at 50 yards as well. As good as I can do. Some of those combinations were way, way worse than others. 60gr of 3F is next best, but for a long day at the range she bruises me up good using that load.

When I first got it, back this winter, it was shooting about 8 inches low at 25. Before adjusting anything I tried all those different loads and variables, changing one variable at a time. I've been shooting it weekly for several months. Probably getting close to 500 shots through it or so, hence actually working on that front sight starting about mid June.

Granted, that inch and a half group is poor to some. I don't shoot from an actual bench where the butt stock and the barrel is supported. It's a sandbag and then my elbows are doing the rest. I very much like the human element of my shooting. I don't plan on competing or anything. It works for me. Honestly, that's as well as I do with unmentionables as well, and they are more forgiving by far.

Anyway. I do think my grease was on too thick this last trip, and I was spoiling part of the main charge.

Good input fellas! I appreciate it

 

[Pete G]

It is very easy to get distracted while loading, especially with a new piece that you aren't familiar with. Thoughts wander, other shooters admire your new gun, etc. etc.....

It is very easy to load the rifle, short start the ball and forget to ram it down. This will give exactly the results that you describe, along with leaving a very dirty bore.
(By now I'm sure that you have figured out how I know all of this) :redface:

You are shooting a light load, so no damage is done, except to your pride, nevertheless you should give a good look at your short starter and make sure that it does not leave a ball aligned with either the sight or barrel lug dovetails. If you move up to heavier loads it could cause a problem since a short started ball is essentially a bore obstruction.

 

[BrownBear]

If your patches are all looking fine, I doubt there's any chance you failed to seat a patched ball on top of your powder. :wink:

I'm more inclined to suspect there's something interfering with clean, quick ignition of your main charge. One of my flinters DEMANDS that I run a pick into the flash hole after each loading.

There's also the question of ball seating pressure. Too much is usually not a good thing for flinter ignition.