GRRW Indian Trade Rifle

[SimonKenton]

I talked with Bill Brandenberg back when GRRW was new. He explained that they built their "Leman Indian Trade rifle" as they did for several reasons. Theirs had a 1 1/16" straight barrel in .58 or .62 caliber and brass fittings. The normal barrel length was 30" but most were from 30-34" in length when ordered.

He said the flintlock single trigger short guns were favored by the Plains nations because they could be more easily reloaded and fired from the saddle than if they had 36" or longer barrels.

I noted that the trigger guard was slightly larger than that of most plains rifles and I assumed it was so it could be managed while handling reins or with gloves on in winter.

Does this sound like a fairly accurate repro? I know Leman had a shop and his guys turned out mostly one style of gun for trade use but there must have been variations. I've heard that some really early ones had a slight swamp for balance in the saddle and the ones given as gifts to chiefs had curly maple and better fit.

Ray

 

[rich pierce]

It's a good late percussion trade rifle, post 1840.

 

[SimonKenton]

Brandenberg said a lot of the EARLY ones were made in flint even with percussion available because:

A- The Indians didn't trust the new technology
anymore than some trappers did.
B- Indians knew exactly where to find flint, chert,
jaspis and other sparking rocks. How were they
to make more caps?

Mine would be a flinter and with a 30" straight barrel 1 1/16" across in .54 for brush country deer or .62 if I thought I might want to try for bear or boar. :hmm: The latter from a HIGH safe vantage. :wink:

Ray

 

[plmeek]

Ray, you are right, Leman made a variety of guns. From the late 1830's to the cartridge era, Hansen guesses that he made as many as 100,000 guns. At its peak, his operation was making 5,000 guns per year.

He made over 9,000 Northwest Trade Guns, nearly all of them flintlocks.

The earliest documented sale of Leman Trade Rifles was in 1837 to the Bureau of Indian Affairs for 500 flintlocks with 42" barrels. The early trade rifles made in the next decade were typical Kentucky style full stock rifles with 38" and longer barrels. Both flint and percussion specimens exist today.

By the 1850's, a shorter barrel full stock version had been developed. The patch box also changed over time from a typical Kentucky pattern to an oval four screw type to the round-lid cap box with fleur-de-lis final fastened with two screws.

Most of the existing post-1850 trade rifles are percussion, but some chief grade flintlock rifles survive (see Wilson's PEACEMAKERS and Gordon's GREAT GUN MAKERS OF THE EARLY WEST).

GRRW's Leman Indian Rifle is a good representation of the post-1850 trade rifle.

As you can see in the pictures above, the GRRW rifle did not come standard with a patch or cap box. You could install the round-lid, fleur-de-lis cap box and percussion lock to complete the post-1850 look or you could install a Kentucky style patch box with a flintlock to make it resemble the earlier trade rifle with a shortened barrel.

In addition to the large volume of trade guns and trade rifles, Leman made fancy full stock rifles, half stock sporting rifles, and heavy plains rifles. Some of the latter were popular in California as "bear rifles".

The GRRW Leman Indian Rifle is my favorite hunting rifle. At 9 lbs, it is lighter than my Hawkens, and the 30" barrel makes it real handy to carry and shoulder. It's also very accurate.

Phil Meek

 

[SimonKenton]

I heard he was prolific but....WOW!!! HOW did he get lost in the dust cloud when writers discussed plains rifles? If I were a Plains Indian I'd prefer a short stout rifle easy to load and fire from the saddle to hunt buffler. Also good for shorter range combat as he could fire, hide, reload and fire again more easily than with a 5' long rifle.

Ray

 

[rich pierce]

I heard he was prolific but....WOW!!! HOW did he get lost in the dust cloud when writers discussed plains rifles?
Ray

I think many books have focused on the rifles used in the fur trade and fewer focused on the rifles used post 1850.

 

[plmeek]

What Rich says. Timing and geography is everything. Even though Leman may have sold a few rifles to the Chouteaus prior to 1837, most of his early rifles and NW guns went to the Bureau of Indian Affairs for treaty annuities and trade in their factories. A few could have made it to the Rocky Mountains in the hands of Delaware, Cherokee, and other Indian trappers or white trappers that picked one up on the trip west, but Leman's heyday was during the robe trade with the Plains Indian. The Sioux and Cheyenne seemed to favor the Leman Trade Rifle as a great many of them were captured from the Plains Indians in the 1870's.

As far as writers are concerned, Charles Hanson, Jr. covered him in THE PLAINS RIFLE, Jim Hanson in the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly, Vol. 7, 1971, Garavaglia and Worman in FIREARMS OF THE AMERICAN WEST, Ryan Gale in FOR TRADE AND TREATY, and James Gordon dedicated 22 pages of text and photos in GREAT GUN MAKERS OF THE EARLY WEST, which is more coverage then he gives to Henry, Deringer, and Tyron.

Ray, on the GRRW Indian Trade Rifle, are you looking to buy one or build one from a kit or try to recreate one from scratch?

 

[SimonKenton]

Track has a basic Leman kit. I'd have to have the channel opened to 1 1/16" and I'd want an L.C. Rice barrel with deep round grooves in the Sharon Hawken twist like on my Tennessee.

Ray

 

[Capt. Fred]

In the Museum of the Fur Trade's book "Firearms of the Fur Trade", there was an interesting tidbit regarding the oversized trigger guards. These were originally requested by the indians so they could pull the trigger with two fingers. They wanted to be able to do this because that is how they shot their bows.

 

[SimonKenton]

Sounds right, but it also makes shooting in winter with gloves a bit easier.

Ray