Goex Pinnacle Black Powder Substitute

[Stumpkiller]

The benefit might be a powder that New York retailers might carry. They have given up on "real" blackpowder because of impratical state-mandated storage requirements.

CayugaD. If you get a chance I'd really like to hear if it works in flintlocks. According to GOEX, it will even work as a priming charge. That would be a Godsend (I can see the writing on the wall that BP is in danger of disappearing from my life if it becomes restricted against mail order shipments to individuals).

I'll buy real blackpowder as long as I can, but it's good to have a "Plan B".

 

[cayugad]

I have been a little concerned about trying it in a flinter because I have not read anywhere that it could be used in one. Maybe I will take a flinter out and see if it works as a primer. If it does then it might work as a main charge also.

I sent an e-mail to Goex and asked them if it could be used in a flintlock but they did not answer me. Although I have noted a lot of mail returning undelivered lately for some reason and perhaps it was one of them. I think I will call them or send off another e-mail today...

If this did work in a flinter that would be something. Clean up is a breeze. My other concern is moisture.

 

[bezoar]

Benefits of Pinnacle? The main benefit is that it has the same requirements of every other synthetic black powder on the market.
Laws are making it harder for shops to stock real BP on the shelf, and we have a good alternative that will be stocked far sooner then real bp is with current regulations from the governments.
ANd the boys at Goex designed it with the boys at APP.

 

[Bob J]

Cayugad-Goex tech. dept. e-mailed me back a month ago when I was experimenting with Pinnacle and said it would work in a flintlock; they said to crush a little in your fingers for priming charge. I only shot it in a percussion and ignition was instantaneous.

 

[RussB]

The benefit might be a powder that New York retailers might carry. They have given up on "real" blackpowder because of impratical state-mandated storage requirements.

CayugaD. If you get a chance I'd really like to hear if it works in flintlocks. According to GOEX, it will even work as a priming charge. That would be a Godsend (I can see the writing on the wall that BP is in danger of disappearing from my life if it becomes restricted against mail order shipments to individuals).

I'll buy real blackpowder as long as I can, but it's good to have a "Plan B".

I have to agree with this plan. I never thought I would say that, but when it comes to shooting, or not shooting, we all will be looking for what works second best.

I know of two people who have a couple pounds of Goex left, and they have declined to shoot in the "fun matches" we used to have, say they are "saving it for hunting season, or until something breaks with the Blackpowder thing"....which is highly unlikely. I personally think it's only going to get worse.

Yes, Plan "B" may indeed be a good thing right now.

Russ

 

[cayugad]

Bob I will have to try that today then. I have been testing the Pinnacle in my inlines and percussion cap lock where it has been working excellent by the way, but just have not had the guts to shove it down a flinter yet.

I will put a new flint in the rifle just to be fair and see how well it shoots. Besides, I have been itching to shoot the flintlocks the last couple days, although the inlines and sidelocks have been helping me over my withdrawls... ::

 

[cayugad]

Well I went and did it. The test rifle was my .50 caliber Thompson Center Hawkins Flintlock. The rifle has a 1:48 twist. The distance was 30 yards. Patches were pillow tick with moosemilk on them. The .490 roundball were home casted. The temp was in the 30's and there were a few snowflakes falling from an overcast almost windless day.

Prior to shooting I swabbed the barrel with Rusty Duck and then alcohol patches. I also ran four dry patches. I changed to a new Black English Flint and wiped the frizzen and pan out with an alcohol patch.

Next I took some of the Pinnacle 3f powder and ground it between my fingers to make some prime powder. I kept this in a metal empty #11 cap tin.

Loaded with 90 grains of Pinnacle Powder and primed with pinnacle prime.

To keep this short.. When primed with pinnacle prime and loaded with pinnacle powder, it was a toss up whether it would go off or not. A lot of times the prime would fuse burn and the rifle would not fire. A couple of the times I had to put Goex 4f in the pan to make it fire.

When loaded with Pinnacle and primed with Goex 4f it would fire but something just did not sound right. I want to say delayed, not like when loaded with Goex 3f.

I could not get any groups when I used Pinnacle as a prime. Flintlocks are new to me and when they are delayed as much as they were, I am sure I moved off target or was distracted. When I used Pinnacle and primed with Goex 4f it was much better.

Then to have some fun and test whether the powder was the cause or me, I loaded some Goex 3f, patch and ball and primed with Goex 4f. Then I actually started shooting a good group and had some fun with the new flint and instant ignition.....

So to sum it up... Yes, you can make the rifle fire with Pinnacle and Pinnacle prime. Would I recommend doing that? :nono: :nono: Not on your life. I will stick with Goex...

 

[Landngroove]

cayugad; Sounds a lot like how American Pioneer Powder works in flintlocks. I have shot A.P.P. FFFG in my T/C Flinters, only as a main charge, (Goex FFFG in pan) and have had delayed ignition, and, as you said " something didn't sound right". It did work better with a kicker of 5 grains Goex FFFG in the main charge, but does not come close to the reliability of Goex FFFG. I will be surprised if a replica/synthetic, powder will work in a flinter.

 

[Stumpkiller]

So to sum it up... Yes, you can make the rifle fire with Pinnacle and Pinnacle prime. Would I recommend doing that? Not on your life. I will stick with Goex.

Good shooting. I suspected the Pinnacle would be iffy as a prime. But at least it's there.

 

[cayugad]

Stumpkiller..

when everyone was wondering if Pinnacle would shoot in the flintlocks, I was a little worried about it. I also kind of figured that if this powder would shoot, it would delay a little. On charge in particular, I had to put the pan charger to the touch hole bushing, start the trail of Goex 4f and drag it into the pan... Talk about a fuse effect. But at least I finally got the mess out of the barrel.

What do you think would be the danger is say I dropped 10 grains of Goex 3f down the barrel first and then the Pinnacle? Could this be dangerous? As I said, I know very little about flintlocks other then from asking all the great people here lots of questions and reading their advise...

 

[Stumpkiller]

I don't, personally, think it would be dangerous. BUT, one of the "Handling Precautions" on cans of Goex says: "Do not mix this powder with a powder of any other type." Your duplex load suggestion has been used with other substitutes successfully, but I would keep the loads moderate.

 

[Bob J]

Cayugad-Thanks for the field report on Pinnacle and flintlocks. :redthumb: This confirms the idea that its best to stay with "real" bp in flinters. For those that desire to use a substitute in percussions, I'd say that Pinnacle and Black Mag are the best bp substitutes. When I questioned the Goex technical dept. about the coarseness of 2f Pinacle, the reply was basically that Pinnacle was fine for sidelocks but DESIGNED FOR inlines. It WAS NOT DESIGNED TO REPLACE BLACK POWDER.

 

[cayugad]

I wanted to shoot it out of some of the bigger percussion cap rifles so I took the .58 caliber out today and shot 100 grains of Pinnacle 3f, a wonder wad, and a moosemilk patched roundball. It shot a respectable 5 shot group. Ignition was instant. And fowling was next to nothing. There seemed to be a lot of power in that load also.

I would have shot a lot more but the dog decided to customize the sights. I had it sitting in the rack unloaded and the phone rang. When I took off to answer it, the old black labrador decided to tag along and he is not real graceful. He bumped the rack and knocked the rifle to the concrete floor. Needless to say the back sight got bumped far to the right. So I need to do a little more sight work in the rifle now... Oh well. Another reason to shoot.