First flintlock - Lyman TR. Questions...

[BillCar]

Hi all,

I just bought a VERY lightly used Trade Rifle. I had wanted to get a GPR, but money is tight at the moment, and the deal on this .50 Trade Rifle was too good to pass up ”“ it was $325 Canadian all-in, with short starter, cleaning kit, all original manuals, a pound of GOEX 4F, a pound of Triple 7 3F, various cleaning solvents, tube of bore butter, a bag of 0.10 patches, a box of Hornady .495 balls, powder measure, some vent picks, powder flask, primer flask, flints, leather to wrap them, possibles bag... the guy even threw in a bunch of wasp's nests.

Additionally, it came with a 3-9x32 scope. This was mounted at two points, one on the barrel and one on the tang. I'm not really crazy about these mounts, and would like to remove them, but they are drilled into the tang and barrel. Is it even possible to remove these without having the barrel permanently disfigured?

Also, I aim to shoot patched round ball exclusively. I know this can be achieved well enough with the 1:48 twist in the Trade Rifle's barrel, but I am wondering about drop-in barrel options. I've seen that companies like Green Mountain have .54 (which I would like to upgrade to) 32" barrels with a 1:70 twist. Has anyone put one of these on a Trade Rifle? Would it throw the balance of the rifle way off? My goal in this is to sort of up the patched round ball accuracy, and get myself to a sort of poor man's version of the GPR.

Thanks in advance for any help ”“ this is my first muzzleloader, and I can't wait to get shooting!

 

[tg]

any holes drilled into the barrel can have a screw installed and filed flush, if browned a rough type finish they may not show to badly

 

[BillCar]

Great! That's what I was thinking, and hoping to hear.

 

[mykeal]

First, get rid of the 777 and get some ffg Goex. The 777 will be inconsistent in a flintlock due to it's significantly higher ignition temperature requirement. It's possible to use a duplex load of 10 gr Goex with the 777 to improve reliability, but since you only have ffffg Goex it's not recommended.

Leaving the scope mounts on would, in my opinion, be much more disfiguring :barf: than taking them off and filling the holes with screws ( :applause: tg!).

 

[Dave K]

I agree, with filling th holes with screws. But, since they are there right now anyhow. It would be a good time to use them as scope mounts to work up a load. I wouldn't drill my barrels, but if they are there, I would use them for now and blank them off later.Work up the load that works best, then place the original sights on and sight those in. You now know the gun already groups that way, just get the sights lined up. JMHO

 

[cowpoke1955]

tg and mykeal covered it! Fill the mounting holes with bolts and file them off flush. Brown the barrel to a rough finish to wipe out any traces of those holes. Get rid of that Triple 7 and get some real black powder, which is required for flinters. You'll have a good looking rifle that is equal to a GPR in quality.I have two GPRs and have handled a Trade Rifle. I think you're going to love that Trade Rifle :thumbsup:

 

[torn moc]

The Trade rifle aint so bad of a gun....your'e gonna love it! I have both a GPR and a trade rifle.. I actually like the trade rifle best..its not as barrel heavy..

 

[BillCar]

Thanks for all the quick responses!

I'm glad to hear that the screws can just be filed flush ”“ I was hoping that could be done.

As for the black powder ”“ would FFFG work well in the Trade Rifle as both a priming charge and a powder load? It seems like it'd be convenient if I could pull that off.

Also, what about putting in a .54 GM 32" 1:70 barrel? Is this a good idea? Is it possible? I would really like to have the option of a .54 barrel in addition to the .50, and I am not all that interested in shooting anything but round balls, so I figure a 1:70 .54 would be a great way to have something intermediate between a Trade Rifle and a GPR.

 

[R.M.]

Yup, 3f will work just fine for both, but seeing as you already have 4f, why not use it. A pound of 4f will last a long long time.

 

[BillCar]

Good to know, thanks! I will definitely use the 4F to prime, and I'll buy some 3F. Since it's a good option, though, I might see about just sticking to 3F when the 4F runs out.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Bcon,
while I agree that it would be wasted effort to work up a load for the 777, you can shoot it away while plinking for fun. I really don't think you will harm anything by using the 4fg as a prime in the patent breach under the 777. I Do not think there will be any pressure problems. If you fear there would be you can just keep your loads of 777 on the light side, say 50 - 60 grains. That's more fun anyway for plinking. I have a lot of experience with the trade rifle in .54. Since yours is a .50 the barrel is even stronger. They stand up to a lot as long as it is BP or proper substitute, not smokeless. Others will also advise.
volatpluvia

 

[BillCar]

Hi volatpluvia,

I'll keep the 777 around, but I do aim to get some 3F as soon as possible. The previous owner was using 65 grains of 777 with some success, though.

 

[Trot]

Don't rule out the original barrel for accuracy. I have many muzzlelaoading rifles, one custom with a GM barrel and some other brands that I have heard people rave about the accuracy of. The two most accurate are both made by Investarms with 1 in 48" twist. A Trade rifle and an Investarms Hawken, one in .50 and one in.54. I shoot nothing but round balls in them.

 

[BillCar]

I definitely won't rule out the accuracy of the .50 barrel that came with it. I've read a lot about how, with the time taken to work up a proper load, it can be as accurate as anything!

However, I am interested in being able to swap barrels back and forth, if possible. I'm really interested in .54, and only in patched round ball. So it seems to me (though I don't know much) that it'd be a good idea to get a drop-in GM barrel in .54, 32" with a 1 in 70" twist. If one of these would fit the Trade Rifle, I'd be over the moon. I haven't read anything about people fitting 32" barrels on the Trade Rifle, though, so I am wondering if that's even possible, and if it is, if it'd just be a bad idea for some reason!

 

[RJR]

Fitting it to the Trade Rifle is the easy part, just some minor file work on the hook. Finding the barrel you are wanting is going to be difficult at best. There are guys here that would slap you over the head with an axe handle for a GM flint 54 rifled barrel (just kidding). We're all hoping GM will make a short run of these barrels again in the near future. You might look for a TC 54 roundball barrel, it'll fit with a little file work. Shoot the barrel you have; it's good, it's accurate and it will serve you well.

JMHO, Rick

 

[tg]

Use LMF browning solution and follow the instruction for a "rough finish and the holes will be barely noticable, I have seen this done on several TC rear sight mount screw holes, it works best if the screws are close to the same steel as the barrel and obviously don't use brass or stainless steel, screws.

 

[kodiakmarine]

I haven't fired a TR, but I used to have a GPR. Lyman makes a very good rifle IMHO, and for the money I don't think their guns can be beat. Why don't you email Green Mountain and ask them about the drop in barrel? Also, I imagine they will let you return the barrel for a refund if it doesn't fit. Lyman also sells it's own TR .54 barrel for $130.00 US. Please let us know how this works out. A Lyman TR with an additional barrel could be an atractive option to others.

Regards,
John
_________________________________________________

With careful aim, smoke and flame, you bring home the game!

 

[kodiakmarine]

Hey Volatpluvia,

I noticed that you are in Chapala. I know that Mexico now bans firearms, but is there an exception for muzzleloaders? I'm asking because I plan on living there during the cold weather months.

Regards,
John

 

[Leonredbeard]

Bigdad54,
Umm, I didn't know that. I was told not to bring any along, which I was not planning to anyway. I assumed (you know what that can do!) provision can be made to hunt here, but again I don't know. The local walmart has bbguns and actual pellet shooting air rifles. I don't know if a permit is needed to own one, I didn't inquire. I would suggest you find the right website. I am sure the information you seek could be found. Don't bring along anything you don't know about, you don't want to spend your time here in jail.
volatpluvia

 

[Zoar]

Bcon--- As this is your first muzzleloader and you have a number of changes it seems you want to make to this gun, my primary question is: have you shot it yet?

I think and hope you will find that you like this Trade Rifle in 50 caliber very much.

One of the biggest keys, in my mind, to an enjoyable introduction to muzzleloading shooting is to use ONLY BLACK POWDER. Sure you can get alot of powders "to work" but for a fun, effortless, griefless, frustrationless, "stop chasing ghosts that aren't there" time with your NEW and first Flintlock.... Please, Throw Away The 777.

Second question: are you going to start shooting the gun with that scope on it or are you going to start shooting it with no scope?

If you have taken it off and plan to shoot scopeless, you can put those screws in the holes and just go to the range and get some time in with the gun and this whole new flintlock experience.

The key issues very early on to concern yourself with and to get YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE with on a flintlock are the (1) the powder (2) The flints (3) Using the sights (4) Working up a load (powder, patch, ball). It seems you are concerning yourself with replacement barrels or modifying the existing barrel and such when I think you would gain far more from: shooting the gun as is. Get experience with the key elements of shooting flint with real black powder and working up patch and round ball loads with the investment you have made to date. I fear if you start with your 777 the next post will be (as happens here very frequently) --- "the piece of manure gun didn't fire for poop and it is a total piece of garbage and I need to machine out the darn vent hole." Or "Some guy at the range said the exact same thing happened to him and $250 bucks in machining fixed it, so should I do it?" etc etc etc...

It sounds like you have all you need except for a pound of black powder 3F and a ball puller. I'd suggest one of those for any newbie to flintlocks/percussion muzlleloaders.

Good luck and have FUN!