I like the design well enough that I am thinking that maybe this new smoothbore might end up being almost a mountain rifle copy, but with the octagon to round 38 inch 12 guage barrel. I would love to find one of the 58's at a good price.
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cva article in american rifleman
- Thread starter walruskid1
- Start date
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Rebel and Runner, y'all are just bein greedy!!
Swampman, I just want one original CVA Squirrel Rifle (either 32 or 36) for under $100. The last one I saw on eBay went for over $100 for the stock and over $100 for the barrel.
Swampman, I just want one original CVA Squirrel Rifle (either 32 or 36) for under $100. The last one I saw on eBay went for over $100 for the stock and over $100 for the barrel.
Rebel
Cannon
I had a little CVA Varmint rifle, which is basically the same gun as the squirrel rifle, but with a single trigger. It was a very accurate shooter. Maybe not quite as accurate as the Traditions Crockett .32, but close.
"They should really be embarrassed about a major league screw-up like this one. CVA, as those in the industry know, is no manufacturer of muzzleloaders. The CVA brand rifle falls into a class of the most dangerous, poorly made muzzleloaders ever inflicted on American sportsmen. There were so many successful personal injury suits against CVA branded guns that the company quickly ended up in bankruptcy. All that really exists is a brand name; there is no such thing as a CVA manufacturing plant.
RW: On the topic of muzzleloading safety, I believe you know the problems associated with extruded barrels as found on CVA, Winchester, and Traditions branded muzzleloaders, and that a lot of people have been getting hurt. Should consumers be concerned about these soft CVA / Traditions barrels, that have sub-10,000 PSI proofed barrels (700 kilopounds per centimeter squared), when used as directed by the respective owners manuals that tell the new owner to pull the trigger on 25,000 to 27,000 PSI three pellet loads?
HB: We should all be very concerned, if not downright alarmed. The sub-standard CVA branded product on the market right now is from an import company that calls itself "Blackpowder Products, Inc.," which is totally Spanish owned and operated. They have no testing facilities in the United States, and import their "Cheap Charlie" muzzleloaders, built to no stated or known standards, branded as "CVA" and "Winchester Muzzleloading" rifles. A new generation of hunters is at great risk, if you believe all the graphic emergency room reports. It is this type of sub-standard, dangerous product made from soft "extruded" steel that caused me and my son to build muzzleloaders that are crafted like real modern rifles, not tinker-toys."
RW: On the topic of muzzleloading safety, I believe you know the problems associated with extruded barrels as found on CVA, Winchester, and Traditions branded muzzleloaders, and that a lot of people have been getting hurt. Should consumers be concerned about these soft CVA / Traditions barrels, that have sub-10,000 PSI proofed barrels (700 kilopounds per centimeter squared), when used as directed by the respective owners manuals that tell the new owner to pull the trigger on 25,000 to 27,000 PSI three pellet loads?
HB: We should all be very concerned, if not downright alarmed. The sub-standard CVA branded product on the market right now is from an import company that calls itself "Blackpowder Products, Inc.," which is totally Spanish owned and operated. They have no testing facilities in the United States, and import their "Cheap Charlie" muzzleloaders, built to no stated or known standards, branded as "CVA" and "Winchester Muzzleloading" rifles. A new generation of hunters is at great risk, if you believe all the graphic emergency room reports. It is this type of sub-standard, dangerous product made from soft "extruded" steel that caused me and my son to build muzzleloaders that are crafted like real modern rifles, not tinker-toys."
There is nothing wrong with those barrels! I did not know you were a wakemanite! I had more respect than that for you until now. I am going to hope you have simply been decieved by thinking he really is an expert on the subject and thought you were quoting real information. That story was started by Randy Wakeman while he was getting paid by the competition. The proof you refer to is a government required proof that has to be on every muzzleloader barrel exported from that country. It has nothing to do with the company testing, safety limits of those barrels or the materials they are made out of, and has absolutely nothing to do with how they are made. It is nothing but the government requirement where they are made.
Green River quit making barrels for muzzleloaders because of getting sued. I guess you will now say they built junk too! The only crud in this discussion is the Wakemanite BS you are spouting.
CVA was sued because of a poorly designed product years ago. To date, the barrels you are complaining about have not been proven dangerous with any recommended load. In destruction tests, they scored higher than barrels made by one company that respected builders that post here use all the time. That is the facts, not the Wakeman twisted BS.
To date, there has been no reported barrel damage by any listed load for the guns using the barrels you mention unless there was a problem with the loading, like the bullet not seated on the powder. Not one!
You are using half truth, pure speculation, and utter HS from Randy Wakeman to justify a BS position that can best be called eliteism, and the more accurate descriptions are alot less flattering.
Take that kind of BS elsewhere. It is not needed here. If you have anything remotely correct to say about CVA, we are willing to listen. Randy's BS is not welcome anywhere serious shooting people sit down.
I proofed one of those barrels well past the factory limits for the so called magnum guns using a caliper to make sure there was no growth at all as I went. It was not even a magnum barrel either. I have absolutely no problem putting 150 grains of 3f 777 inder a 410 grain conical in that gun and snuggling down behind it to fire the load. Is everything you post about CVA's from "reputable" sources like Randy????
Randy Wakeman came to the CVA board and the HuntAmerica board a few years back. He was a complete newcomer, and asked question after question after question. While he was asking how to load muzzleloaders, he was telling people to get away from cheap guns and to buy the expensive guns. I in just a couple of days, Randy started to parrot back what he was told with the words rephrased a little to answer newcomers questions on several boards. I warned everyone then that they were being pumped for info to write a book or make a video. I was right and a video it was. Since his video, he is an instant expert about muzzleloading. He rubs elbows with the big names, gets to go hunting with them, and he gets paid as the mouthpiece for others. The info you quote is simple tear down the competition BS he was paid to write. When Savage took him on, then suddenly his stand against smokeless muzzleloaders changed. His latest claim to fame is a series of articles in an attempt to prove that BC really doesn't exist and has no effect on trajectory in support of conical sales and use in states that don't allow them. He word is bought, sold, and traded like a baseball player. Please don't bring his BS here.
Green River quit making barrels for muzzleloaders because of getting sued. I guess you will now say they built junk too! The only crud in this discussion is the Wakemanite BS you are spouting.
CVA was sued because of a poorly designed product years ago. To date, the barrels you are complaining about have not been proven dangerous with any recommended load. In destruction tests, they scored higher than barrels made by one company that respected builders that post here use all the time. That is the facts, not the Wakeman twisted BS.
To date, there has been no reported barrel damage by any listed load for the guns using the barrels you mention unless there was a problem with the loading, like the bullet not seated on the powder. Not one!
You are using half truth, pure speculation, and utter HS from Randy Wakeman to justify a BS position that can best be called eliteism, and the more accurate descriptions are alot less flattering.
Take that kind of BS elsewhere. It is not needed here. If you have anything remotely correct to say about CVA, we are willing to listen. Randy's BS is not welcome anywhere serious shooting people sit down.
I proofed one of those barrels well past the factory limits for the so called magnum guns using a caliper to make sure there was no growth at all as I went. It was not even a magnum barrel either. I have absolutely no problem putting 150 grains of 3f 777 inder a 410 grain conical in that gun and snuggling down behind it to fire the load. Is everything you post about CVA's from "reputable" sources like Randy????
Randy Wakeman came to the CVA board and the HuntAmerica board a few years back. He was a complete newcomer, and asked question after question after question. While he was asking how to load muzzleloaders, he was telling people to get away from cheap guns and to buy the expensive guns. I in just a couple of days, Randy started to parrot back what he was told with the words rephrased a little to answer newcomers questions on several boards. I warned everyone then that they were being pumped for info to write a book or make a video. I was right and a video it was. Since his video, he is an instant expert about muzzleloading. He rubs elbows with the big names, gets to go hunting with them, and he gets paid as the mouthpiece for others. The info you quote is simple tear down the competition BS he was paid to write. When Savage took him on, then suddenly his stand against smokeless muzzleloaders changed. His latest claim to fame is a series of articles in an attempt to prove that BC really doesn't exist and has no effect on trajectory in support of conical sales and use in states that don't allow them. He word is bought, sold, and traded like a baseball player. Please don't bring his BS here.
I am far from an expert, but the information that I have is that there was one design of inline that CVA produced that had a problem. This is a quote from their website:
Note that the recall was a voluntary recall - not a Federally mandated recall. That typically means that there were very few injuries or issues. As I recall, there was a problem with the inline breech plug on what was a very new design. CVA has been in business since 1971 according to their website. With the ligitous society that we live in, do you TRULY believe that ANY firearm manufacturer would stay in business for 34 years if they produced manure?? From what I see, they had one potential issue, and rather than allow it to blossom into something catastrophic, they did the right thing and stepped forward to make it right.
I have read some of the stuff that Randy Wakeman has posted. It all reads like copy for whichever company he is working for at the time. He has suggested that some off the shelf rifles can be shot with smokeless powder with no ill effects. How responsible is he for doing that?
Note that the recall was a voluntary recall - not a Federally mandated recall. That typically means that there were very few injuries or issues. As I recall, there was a problem with the inline breech plug on what was a very new design. CVA has been in business since 1971 according to their website. With the ligitous society that we live in, do you TRULY believe that ANY firearm manufacturer would stay in business for 34 years if they produced manure?? From what I see, they had one potential issue, and rather than allow it to blossom into something catastrophic, they did the right thing and stepped forward to make it right.
I have read some of the stuff that Randy Wakeman has posted. It all reads like copy for whichever company he is working for at the time. He has suggested that some off the shelf rifles can be shot with smokeless powder with no ill effects. How responsible is he for doing that?
