Cheap Shot Sabots For Hunting?

[Cosmoline]

I picked up some of these TC "Cheap Shot Sabots" for target practice. They're .50 cal sabots and 240 grain. Soft lead HP's. Has anyone actually used these for hunting? They might be pretty good. They're all lead with no jacket and are almost as accurate as roundball out of my rifle.

 

[Rancocas]

Stop using foul language.

 

[playfarmers]

Stop making life complicated, just shoot patched balls. I have been down that road and if you pay attention, it leads right back to the round ball.

 

[roundball]

I agree...but somebody needs to tell Track of the Wolf...
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(u.../tableList.aspx?catID=2&subID=25&styleID=1049

 

[Vaino]

My oh my....the poster asks a very pertinent question and every reply tries to convert him to PRBs. Personally, PRBs are all I use but seeing a person is free to hunt with whatever projectile he chooses within state game laws, why all the "gasps" of disapproval? Many years ago I "learned" that it wasn't in my best interests to criticize other's choices in many things....especially an individual's choices asre hunting and fishing. The members of our elk party use very different projectiles in their traditional rifles and the subject is never discussed. I know what is used and care less....why should something so trivial have any bearing on the enjoyment of an elk hunt?....Fred

 

[tg]

I think that the mainstream theme of this forum is traditional ML shooting/hunting and very few of the non RB projectiles used in ML's today are of a traditional type, and let's not go to the old standby that a conical is a conical and the period ones are the same as the modern ones if we apply that standard to the projectile then it shold be applied to the guns as well.It is to each his own what he uses but when bringing up modern gear on a mainly traditional oriented forum a negative response and suggesting the use of traditional gear is to be expected.when in Rome..

 

[paulvallandigham]

Cosmoline: You are not the first MLer to think to try those plastic shoes to hold a RB instead of a patch. What we all found, the hard way, was that in addition to having to clean Lead out of our barrels, as well as powder residue, we also had to clean out PLASTIC residue. That involves other solvents( we didn't all have the correct solvents, and had to search gun stores to find a bottle of the stuff) to dissolve and remove the plastic.

By the time you get done buying all the extras that allow you to use the plastic shoes, You realize you have defeated one of the purposes that attracted you to ML rifles in the first place--- CHEAP FUN! You still had fun, of course, but it now was no longer " Cheap ". And cleaning took twice the time and more to get the barrel clean again. Most of us either gave those shoes to someone in the club, or shot up the bag we bought and went back to cloth patches and spit to recoup our lost " mad money ".

There are always two ways to learn things in this sport: listening to others and learning from their mistakes; and making all your own mistakes. Its your choice.

:hatsoff:

 

[Cosmoline]

If anyone is interested in reboring my fifty into a fifty four or fifty eight so's I can use PRB's and not get kilt, I'm all ears :grin:

I love PRB's, but the fifties are by all accounts too light for the larger of the beasts in the woods here. I suppose if we want to get 100% traditional I'll need to consult my books. Here's a passage about ML hunting on Kodiak in the 1890's:

"The natives had their civil war muzzle-loading muskets which shot either a round ball or a lead slug."

Dodge, Kodiak Island and its bears at p. 62 (quoting from period account).

I know plastic was not used, of course, but what kind of "lead slug" would they have been using?

 

[rabjr]

"The natives had their civil war muzzle-loading muskets which shot either a round ball or a lead slug."

Minie ball

 

[tg]

There were probably a lot of lead bullets used in ML's in the past they may have used the Minnie ball in the quote you posted or any lead bullet that would fit the bore.They may have used balls in the .58 bore guns, it is just hard to find any period bullets today, it is to bad as it could open the door to a whole new aspect of ML hunting/shooting if someone would produce a selection of originals bullets for MLs.My guess is that they can produce new styles with better ballistics than the originals so they don't bother,the current trend in ML projectiles is to juice them up to get as much as possible out of them and approach or equal centerfire stats, it seems like that if they worked back then they would work now though.

 

[Cosmoline]

Minie ball was what I figured, but there apparently were projectiles of that era known specifically as "slugs" or "slug ball". Conical in shape but rounded on both ends and solid without a hollow base or point. Akin to a modern wadcutter but without the sharp paper-cutting edges. Possibly loaded with a patch just like a RB, since it has no grease grooves.

If the purpose was to maximize the amount of impact weight for close range shooting without concern for accuracy or power outside 50 yards, that shape might serve quite well. I know a fellow who's tested .38 caliber wadcutters and found them to have remarkable penetration in spite of the minimal powder charge characteristic of target loads.
http://www.relicman.com/bul149.htm

Anyone shot these before? Or even seen them?

And I realize there are various conicals on today's market, but from what I've seen the bulk of these are of Keith style or HP designs that didn't exist in the 19th century anymore than plastic sabots. This would be something much more simple, but possibly just what I need.

 

[tg]

The lower left looks like what was called the lozenge ball or bullet it was often more elongated than the one in the picture,there were a lot of solid lead bullets often they were patched.I think thewre was a solid bullet similar to the top right pic but shorter with no groves that was called the sugarloaf due to the resemblance of period sugar. there were also variations of these as well if I recall, several years ago there was a guy around the forums who was realy into the 19th century ML bullets but I have lost touch of him, he had a lot of good info he shared but I must rely on memory now as I cannot find the sites he posted sources on.

 

[Cosmoline]

I've been scouting online for a mold, but I can't find squat. It's just about the most simple design you could think of. Probably .490" diameter for loading with a patch. No grooves, rounded ends. I suppose you could just squeeze hard enough on a larger caliber ball and probably make one. Or roll it between some iron plates even. Do you know of any CW buffs who've recreated these "pills"?

 

[tg]

I have not seen any, you might try one of the CW forums there is probably someone into that era that has some info on them, you could probably make a mold out of pipestone or soapstone, or if you know a machinist have one made.

 

[Stumpkiller]

My oh my....the poster asks a very pertinent question and every reply tries to convert him to PRBs.

Yeah. You'd think this was a traditional muzzleloading website or something. Sheesh. :shake:

 

[Little Wattsy]

I picked up some of these TC "Cheap Shot Sabots" for target practice. They're .50 cal sabots and 240 grain. Soft lead HP's. Has anyone actually used these for hunting? They might be pretty good. They're all lead with no jacket and are almost as accurate as roundball out of my rifle.

They will work just fine but as you can see some get just a tad touchy when they sence someone drifting to the dark side aka inline technology :wink: .
What I found as a newbie was that ACTUALLY as I got started it didnt take long do draw me into WANTING to simplify...What I mean is that I came from an extensive centerfire hunting experiance and so was drawn to "bigger, faster, harder hitting" just like I used to reload. BUT after playing at the range the simple little old PRB has really drawn my heart away from conicals or the like. I, will however, use a conical when hunting the bigger critters like elk and bear.

 

[Cosmoline]

I ran into a fellow on THR who made a similar ML wadcutter type mold with good results. It should be extremely simple given the lack of any grooves or other features. Basically just an elongated roundball. I'd be curious to see how such a bullet performed.

Yeah. You'd think this was a traditional muzzleloading website or something. Sheesh.

Nothing against PRB's. I'm just asking for input. Actually the more I study it the more I discover an incredible array of totally forgotten bullet shapes. It wasn't all Minies and roundballs before 1900. Take a gander at some of these weird creations.
http://www.southronrelics.com/civil_war_bullets.htm

 

[paulvallandigham]

Have you considered using the Lee R.E.A.L. bullet mold? Its looks more like a wadcutter, than anything else, but they are accurate and shoot well in a fast twist rifling, or even in a 1:48 ROT barrel.

 

[Swampman]

I have, they worked fine. You need a fast twist barrel.

 

[Halftail]

Thay work in a 1;48 twist?I never thought of using them,a roundball always seemed to be the best idea.