Bass Pro Requires ID Photocopy to Buy BP!

[MikeEasy]

Went to the Bass Pro Shop to get some FFg for a trade gun.

I'm old enough that my age isn't a problem. The clerk, "Terry", first asked me "What do you need it for?" which I thought was none of his business, of course. I scoffed and replied "A muzzleloader!" Then he asked for my ID (Texas driver's license) and, to my amazement walked into the back area where he photocopied my ID.

When questioned he insisted that the ATF required that he photocopy my ID. I told him I thought he was wrong, that it was more likely Bass Pro company policy.

Has the ATF indeed now specified that one must get their ID photocopied to buy black powder?

 

[wattlebuster]

I bought a can of FFFF for prime back last yr at bass pro an they did not. So unless it is something new then the guy behind the counter didnt know what he was talking about :shake:

 

[galamb]

Hmmm, maybe you got transported to Canada - that is our process up here (all black powder AND smokeless powder sales are recorded in a ledger with the buyers details).

Now, I did just do a "quick google" on ATF and Black Powder and came up with this (letter) (ATF)

It explains the exemption for black powder which is used for muzzle loading guns for "sporting, recreational and cultural" purposes.

Any other use "requires a permit".

Now, I would suggest that maybe ATF just kinda pushed this info, at least initially, to the bigger box retailers.

So, the clerk asking what you wanted the powder for was the only way that "they" (Bass Pro) could confirm whether or not you required a permit or where exempt.

You stated that you were using it for a purpose that does not require a permit.

Sounds like the "taking a copy of your ID" is a way of them covering their butts should the ATF come to them and say "did you confirm that you sold this to whomever and they didn't need a permit" and they say "yes, and here's all the guys/gals who bought it stating they were using it for "antique firearms"".

Had your answer to the guys question been "I'm making fireworks" you would have required a permit in order to buy it for that use.

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

If you think thats bad, They now have serial numbers on the bottles so they can be tracked.

 

[omarick1948]

It's not Brass Pro Shops. You can thank HOME LAND SECURITY and the "Nutjobs" and terrorists abroad!

 

[tenngun]

I'm opposed of any thing that resembles gun control, or registration. I am an nra member but think they can be a might liberal at times, that said I don't mind showing id to buy powder. We live in a world with Islamic terrorist , BLM, occupy wal street, and anonymous. We have to show I d to buy sudifed. Our local place I like to buy beer is called the Brown Derby. I'm 58 but have to show I d every time I make a buy.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Has the ATF indeed now specified that one must get their ID photocopied to buy black powder?

Yes and no..... A couple years ago the ATF issued a "enhanced security directive" of sorts....I don't have it in front of me so I can't quote it directly....But, in essence all BP sales are to be recorded and questioned. If you order from one of the online suppliers, a copy of your drivers license is required..
Retailers are just covering their behinds, otherwise if you turned out to be a terrorist whomever sold it to you would be considered "aiding a terrorist".....

I'm not sure what else may have come down the pipe in the last several months.... :idunno:

 

[Zonie]

If you think thats bad, They now have serial numbers on the bottles so they can be tracked.

Are you sure these are Serial numbers or are they Lot numbers?

Lot numbers are nothing new. They have been used for years to identify which production lot the powder came from.
(Each batch of powder that is made has a unique number assigned to it so the company that made it can tell it apart from all the other production batches they make. It's a safety thing.)

Even the 45 year old can of DuPont powder I have has a Lot number on it (although it was ink stamped and can't be read any more).

By the way, a production lot of powder can be well over 15,000 or 20,000 pounds (or more) so there would be well over 15,000 cans with the same number on it.

That's significantly different than a Serial number where every single can gets its own number.

As for the seller wanting personal identification, Homeland Security might be wanting to be able to track it.

That was what was told to me the last time I bought some black powder out at the Winter National Muzzleloading shoot when he wanted my AZ drivers license number.

 

[Crewdawg445]

If you think thats bad, They now have serial numbers on the bottles so they can be tracked.

Sorry, that's a stinking pile...

The government wouldn't waste the time or resources tracking cans of black powder, very big waste of time. They have other items on the agenda...

 

[Maven]

"If you order from one of the online suppliers, a copy of your drivers license is required."

CC, I ordered 16lb. BP from Jon Benkert/Addicted to Blackpowder several months ago and all that I provided was a credit card no. Have things changed since then? :idunno:

 

[Patocazador]

I ordered some powder online ~ 2 weeks ago and the Old Eynesford bottle had an 11 digit number on it. This number was listed on the invoice and I had to sign for the shipment plus show a picture ID when Fed-Ex delivered it. I don't know if this was a serial number because only one of the bottles was black powder. There were no restrictions on the BlackHorn 209 that I bought.

To be on the safe side, I intend to destroy the bottle of BP when it is empty so no "bad guy" can place it at the scene of his mischief. Paranoid??, maybe but I call it CYA. I don't need badges showing up at the door to harass me because a discarded bottle was found where it shouldn't have been.

 

[Crewdawg445]

Any and all regulations regarding the sale and ownership of BP can be found on the ATF's website. They legally have to disclose any and all changes within a certain time window to the public.

Now certain vendors can and do mandate their own regs regarding their personal sale of BP inventory to cover their tails in an unlikely event. I would, however if someone came knocking for my NICS records on all my clients, I'd be having a big bonefire...

I worked in close hand with the ATF and the FBI NICS system for a number of years in an armory. My sole responsibilities were to ensure ATF regs were followed on all sales including class 3 clients. I also was responsible for maintaining and safeguarding digital and all hardcopy records. I pulled many records for local authorities and federal agencies as well. Not ever were there any cases concerning the purchase of BP.

In my line of work, never once have they asked me about my purchasing of BP... however they might now.

 

[garra]

Zonie, I believe you are correct. I just pulled a couple of empty Goex powder bottles and both had what looked like a date and batch number on them. 03-04/14DE01B and 03-08/15MY15B. Both were 3F. Looked at a full one on my shelf
03-08/15MY15B. Looks like that confirms a batch number to me.

 

[Jensen]

I have bought BP from Bass Pro twice in the last 2 months and have never been asked for my Drivers License. The numbers on the Goex are the lot numbers. I buy multiple whenever I go and the numbers are always the same for that visit.

 

[TNGhost]

Seems it may be attributable to BO's recent Executive Actions. While not able to enact any new rules, much of what was done, was done by directing the BATFE to go over the "fineprint" and find ways to expand their enforcement by re-interpreting statuates or tightening areas they had previously allowed leeway. galambs statement of BATFE pushing it on retailers would fit this.

This is much the same as Clinton's husband's actions which resulted in major reductions in the number of FFL holders in the 90's. One of their many overeaches of that era.

Serial numbers, while far fetched, if true, could be another "re-interpretation". Crewdawg445, you would be amazed by what our government "wastes" their time on, this would not surprise me one bit.

If any of us here are under any illusion that our hobby is any safer from the "gun grabbers" because of its primitive designation, than the guys who shoot/collect ARs and AKs, we oughta wake up. Maryland should be a clue. If you like the holy black, you should realize it's going to be the first to go. :wink:

 

[coloradoclyde]

"If you order from one of the online suppliers, a copy of your drivers license is required."

CC, I ordered 16lb. BP from Jon Benkert/Addicted to Blackpowder several months ago and all that I provided was a credit card no. Have things changed since then? :idunno:

The Caveat is that the ID requirement is not mandatory....It's just really smart if you're a retailer....

If you make a internet purchase with a credit card you inadvertently supply about ten times the information of a drivers license....So it's kind of a moot point.

 

[TNGhost]

"If you order from one of the online suppliers, a copy of your drivers license is required."

CC, I ordered 16lb. BP from Jon Benkert/Addicted to Blackpowder several months ago and all that I provided was a credit card no. Have things changed since then? :idunno:

If they have changed, it would have been between the first week of January and now, if in relation to the EAs. Give it 3-4 weeks to trickle down to the troops in the field and you'd probably notice it mid February. Anyone else bought real black recently and noticed any procedural difference?

The DL/ID thing is mostly about proof of age, as it relates to liability issues. Big box/large chain stores are more inclined to worry about it. Many websites just have a check box or DOB field to fill out. If I recall correctly, I filled out an DOB field last time I ordered online from Grafs, used a CC no DL required, but it has been almost a year.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I wonder if his information was already on file... :hmm:

 

[Jim C]

Most online retailers have required that for quite some time now.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Here is some of what I was referring to.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rc...HPlI7c9k3tgvIU33v-KsSQ&bvm=bv.117218890,d.cWw
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rc...OhkctbqCQJ92ebKm9JkobQ&bvm=bv.117218890,d.cWw

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Explosives/Industry/open-letter-black-powder.pdf