Alliant Black MZ

[Ben K]

G'day guys,

Has anybody here actually used or tried to use Alliant Black MZ in a flintlock rifle?

The company's product information says it can be done just fine.

Just a bit of background on my situation: I have managed to source some real Wano 4F for priming, with great difficulty, but for main charges it is pretty hard to get the real thing. Alliant Black MZ is readily obtainable for me. In fact, Alliant Black MZ is all I have experience with, in my percussion cap rifle. It works beautifully in the percussion cap rifle. But with a flintlock just over the horizon, I'm getting excited and focused on problem solving.

Thanks, gents.

Ben

 

[azmntman]

I would drop 10 grains of the wano down the bore and then the remainder of the desired charge in Blk MZ. I have done that very very successfully with triple seven and pyrodex, YOU HAVE TO USE rel black in the pan. Good luck!

 

[Dane]

Don't put 4f in your barrel. Pressures WAY to high.
Substitutes can be used as duplex loads, what a pain.
Just gotta be some way to buy black powder down under.
You'll like your flinter much better.

 

[azmntman]

Ya, just noted yer wano is 4f. If ya can get 4f, prime with that (in pan) and get ya some 2f for the 10 charge under the sub. BUT if ya can get the wano 2f just shoot it and leave the blk mz for yer caplocks.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

You gotta do what ya gotta do....

That being said.

Make sure the gun has a generous touch hole or can take a white lightning liner. You can pour the pan charge, tilt the powder over the touchhole, and pus in a bit of 4f in the hole. Then pick the channel open. This might be helpful. This helps my lyman gpr when it's dirty.

Have a range rod with a good ball puller. Have a small and a 2nd large screw ball puller.

Until you trust the gun, push a cleaning patch between shots.

Cleaning the pan and pan roof section of the frizzen will generate more heat for the touch hole.

Folks using substitutes in flinters is not rare.

I'd make sure you have a 1/16th touch hole and a well matched pick to that hole.

Having a way of controlling the priming amount will be helpful. Too much isn't always better.

Every person I know who uses substitutes puts a bit of real powder in first. Since these guns are commercially made, they have the patent chamber, so 5 grains covers it well.

I'd buy a can of 3f and 4f. You can use a bit of 3f in the barrel if needed, or just use it for the pan if you don't.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Ignition has 3 variables. Heat, time, and surface conditions.

While 4f is hotter, a 3f pan likely has a longer flame duration.

That black soot has moisture in it, not only black absorbs heat better, but the moisture cools the flame temp down. I always wipe clean between shots.

The light as needed pan charge cuts down on fouling. I use a rag with a dab of spit. I've seen a few folks have small dropper of rubbing alcohol to clean their pan too.

Exposure, this is picking the touchhole. Some pick before and after loading. Some leave the pick in during loading. A closed channel acts like a fuse for a delayed fire. With substitutes you need all the flame you can get.

Make sure the powder is below the touch hole in the pan.

You patch lube can add significantly to your fouling. I'd be tempTed to use the evaporated ballistol lube on a load like that.

Modern substitutes brag about going faster. Make sure you watch for bulges in the barrel and for looser sections of barrel when pushing s ball in there...

 

[Rick Boylan]

I'd think that a good test would be to put some of the questionable powder in the flash pan and see if it goes POOF when the sparks hit it? If so, then it might be a good candidate to use. From there I would load a blank load in the rifle and use the ffff to see if it will go BOOM. If so, then you should be good to go.

But that's just my $0.02.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I have tried it....and by itself it is unreliable.. with poor and inconsistent ignition... Not even suitable for target or plinking.
I have not tried it with a small amount of real BP in the barrel first but I have tried it with 4FFF in the pan and it still sucks.

Black MZ works good in percussions and is excellent I cartridge guns....Particularly shotguns...IMO.....

 

[larry wv]

Clyde I am going to a gun auction in a week or so. Looks to be a few jars of that stuff there. How does it compare to Pyrodex in a cap gun. I figure knowing this area it will go for very few dollars. But if it's worse than Pyrodex I will keep my hands in my pockets.

Larry

 

[coloradoclyde]

It's size granulation is somewhere between 1f and 2 ff....It is considerably cleaner and much less corrosive than pyrodex... I prefer the Smell of pyrodex... It does not clean easily with water like pyrodex does.

I haven't done a head to head test on accuracy....

In percussion guns I still prefer pyrodex, but Black MZ is my favorite for cartridge guns...

All of this said.....I'd crawl naked though broken glass for real Black powder.... :haha:

But buy a can and try it...you might love it...

 

[larry wv]

Yes Clyde nothing beats Black Powder. I use Goex and Kik the most. I keep getting cheap jars of Pyrodex at sale and use them to save the good stuff when playing. Usually 10 grs Black and the rest pyrodex in flinter's. If the price is cheap I guess I can save(hoard) some more. Thanks Clyde

Larry

 

[Patocazador]

A local barrel maker (Long Hammock Barrels) raved to me about Black MZ. He said he really likes it.

I don't know if he has ever tried it in a flintlock.
I'll stick with the real stuff. I hate Pyrodex, pellets, Shockey's stuff, etc. I love black powder.

 

[Zonie]

As the others have said, drop a small amount of your priming powder down the bore to serve as the ignition source and load the rest of the main powder charge with your synthetic BP.

Even though the real BP is 4f, in a small charge like 5-10 grains of it won't cause any harm to your gun.

If you use 10 grains under the main powder charge and 3 grains to prime the pan your pound of powder should get you about 525 shots before you have to find some more of it. (Actually 7000/13 = 538.5 shots :grin: )

 

[BigBoreBLR]

The guys I know use 5 grains on the barrel.

For me, it's cheaper to order blackpowder than to buy any kind of substitute locally.

You may be better off with pyrodex than the black mz.

 

[necchi]

Even though the real BP is 4f, in a small charge like 5-10 grains of it won't cause any harm to your gun.

Yeah that's my take too, there will be little to no dangerous pressures gonna be made by using a small bit of 4F as a starter to a duplex load.
Of course anyone can over do it right Cobber(?)
Start with 5grns, pour it down then tap the rifle down by the lock with the palm of your hand a few times to settle that small bit of 4F near the vent,, then pour the main charge of the faux stuff.
Then go after your shot like normal, don't forget to pick the vent,, you don't want it blocked/plugged with powder.
If 5grns works great, if not try a little more,, but your not going to have to go over the 10grns we're talking about.
Keep it safe man, Good luck.

 

[Ben K]

Big thanks to everybody for the knowledge you guys share. I'll be reading and re-reading this thread. Cheers, Ben

 

[Rick Boylan]

I'd crawl naked though broken glass for real Black powder

Hey, what you do in your spare time is no concern of ours. :wink: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Crewdawg445]

I can't figure out why people get involved with "traditional black powder shooting" and then they want to use synthetics... :hmm:

I second the broken glass ordeal for real black, there is NO substitute better than the real deal, period.

 

[necchi]

Yeah,yeah,, the "Holy Black" story again,, I get it, (it's been done ad nausea).
But the practical matter is it's not always possible for any number of reasons.
For many years I didn't have enough money to order powder. When folks live check to check other things have priority. At that time I spent extra money actually going to vous and events with a single pound of faux powder instead of shooting alone with several cans of BP.

Do what you gotta do, If I can't get BP, I'll use something else (period)

 

[Kapow]

He lives in a very remote part of the world where you might still see the odd ritual spearing. So he's limited to what he can get his hands on. As we all may be one day....