.45 Caliber: Deer?

[mule163]

Just be sure it's a 70 grain charge eh? The old load was 405 grains of lead and 70 grains of powder, probably at least 3Fg, and perhaps finer. Most of the commercial muzzleoader .45 bullets and molds cast a projectile under 300 grains. NOT that you need anything heavier. YET, IF one was to use say 40 grains of 3Fg and a conical, that person would be using an approximate handgun cartridge load. On the other hand one doesn't need to juice up the load to 120 grains, but I've seen guys that do that. Even TC at first thought the .45 wasn't adequate... publishing data in their first manual for double .440 round ball loads.

LD

No way that equals a modern cartridge!

 

[smo]

I would say it’s possibly the same knock down power, At close range..

 

[stikshooter]

I can’t help noticing how much better guns and ammo and people perform in forums (as told) and here in cyberspace in general….

Without the explosive cell rupturing destructive benefit of hydrostatic pressure…well….a shooter is basically just drilling a 45 cal hole in his quarry …
since it’s just drilling, the requirements are it be drilled deep enough and in the right place from the correct angle to be within minutes lethal..not hours or days lethal.
Obviously larger caliber balls (more mass and weight) shot at similar Blackpowder’s energetic limits drill bigger deeper holes….

With my own eyes (outside of cyberspace,)it appears bigger deeper holes
kill with a certainty that is lacking in smaller caliber drilling…

Round ball projectiles are the absolute minimum projectile in any caliber…( lowest sectional density, BC) ….the only way to compensate for this minimal sectional density is the heavier projectiles of a larger caliber ball…or conical bullets or supersonic velocities.

Could not have send the obvious any better , glad someone said it ! Too many on forums talk about RB performance and their accuracy levels on the internet ignoring their obvious limitations in reality . Bigger is always better unless squirrel hunting ! That's why barkin was used ./Ed

 

[stikshooter]

I wouldn’t blame the .45 caliber for that.

I once did the same for a doe as a finishing shot many years ago with a 2-3/4” 12g foster slug which also didn’t exit. It was a long time ago but I’m thinking 60ish yards from a scoped gun. I remember being astonished that it didn’t exit

I agree with @hanshi in that the .45 is plenty. Deer are thin skinned critters and as long as you do your part the ball will perform well.

Bob

Yup but if you don't the result is a stinking deer!!! /Ed

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

Yup but if you don't the result is a stinking deer!!! /Ed

True. Proper shot selection is the hunters job.

 

[nkbj]

A nice thing about muzzleloading rifles is that there's no brass cases limiting the powder capacity.

 

[nkbj]

Just a passing thought about deer hunting, rifles and revolvers...
Round ball out of a .45 rifle is generally adequate. The diameter is more than enough but upping the penetration and energy transfer a bit could be a good thing as so many people find out shooting Lee REAL's. So why not have a bullet specifically designed to work well in your six shooter as well as your rifle?

 

[Sparkplug]

Just a passing thought about deer hunting, rifles and revolvers...
Round ball out of a .45 rifle is generally adequate. The diameter is more than enough but upping the penetration and energy transfer a bit could be a good thing as so many people find out shooting Lee REAL's. So why not have a bullet specifically designed to work well in your six shooter as well as your rifle?

I shoot the 200 grain Lee REAL in both.
I ha e so.e smaller 160s, but haven't worked with them much.

 

[nkbj]

Which revolver are you using Sparkplug?

 

[Sparkplug]

Which revolver are you using Sparkplug?

Pietta 1858 Sherrif

 

[nkbj]

Is yours a newer one? Which style of rifling do you have?
The older ones have cut grooves about half as wide as the lands.

 

[Sparkplug]

Is yours a newer one? Which style of rifling do you have?
The older ones have cut grooves about half as wide as the lands.

Yes. A new one. Not sure about the rifling. Never compared the two.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I lost it only bid to £560 on line Always another auction

Full Catalogue Entry
Lot 506

-
25 Mar 2024 Norfolk
A CONTINENTAL 22-BORE PERCUSSION SPORTING RIFLE SIGNED SELLIER & CO., LEIPZIG, no visible serial number,

Sold for £650
£300 - 500

 

[hinamanra]

I like my 54, 58 and 62 but I killed my first 6 flinlock deer here in PA with my T/C hawken. The largest buck dressed out at 192 lbs, double lung at 70 yards with a prb & 75gr 3F. The exit hole was about the size of a half dollar. He went down about 40 yards. All but one went down within 40-60 yards and that one fell right there, I got a bit ahead and broke both sholders at 50 yards, it may anchor them but it's a bad shot, its messy and almost always take a 2nd kill shot. All the deer I've killed with my larger bores might of ran sideways for a couple steps but they still went 40 to 60 yards and weren't any deader. I watch my buddy kill a 130 lb doe at 180 yard with a 45 long rifle, double lung, it ran about 40 yards. The ball was flattend out against the hide on the opposite side. So yeah, good shots with a 45 will do it. Same with any caliber, "good shots"

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Here is a different perspective from some one who process 1000 plus deer a season. Most hunters will shoot a deer anywhere with any firearm. Probably 40% of the deer we get the front shoulder are mush very little if anything can be saved. Deer are gut shot, shot through the rear quarter, missing legs, shot at quartering too angles destroying a front shoulder and rear quarter. Then they complain when the meat they get doesn't equal what they thought they should get but the notes on the cut sheet say shot through both shoulder and rear quarters on the sheet. Bottom line a proper placed bullet of any kind behind the shoulder with a quartering away or broadside saves the most meat. Take your time don't rush a shot wait for the right moment or pass the shot. All day long when they bring in the deer we say "your going to lose some of your meat because you "butt" shot it.. We Hear "well it was the only shot I had.. Its almost sickening the liquid mess or deer parts we have to toss out because its unsalvageable. The most ethical hunters in my opinion are bowhunters. 95% of the shots are behind the shoulder in chest. Gun hunting I hunt out of the same close set up stands I use to bowhunt. I get tired of hearing about 400 yard shots with modern stuff. Why brag about not being able to get close to a deer and taking a more ethical shot then gut shooting it at 400 yards with a 6.5 manbun round (6.5 creed). A 45 cal muzzleloader does just fine, as does any suitable caliber/gauge. It all comes down to user error with lost game. Of course hunters blame the broadhead, bullet/ball, I clipped a tree, the deer moved right when i shot, the buck was chasing a doe and wouldn't stop etc etc etc. I am glad they bring us deer though as we stay in business, but sometimes I really question the morality of my fellow "sportsman/woman".
Every year here is the cycle with gun hunting. First weekend big bucks, second week small bucks, last weekend 40-50 pound fawns galore. I don't mind the fawns they pay the same, take a third of the time and materials to package etc. But when you pay $125 to get 15-20 pounds of meat maybe - thats on you buddy. PS the shop record for smallest deer is 17 pound skinned hanging weight shot 3 times.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Here is a different perspective from some one who process 1000 plus deer a season. Most hunters will shoot a deer anywhere with any firearm. Probably 40% of the deer we get the front shoulder are mush very little if anything can be saved. Deer are gut shot, shot through the rear quarter, missing legs, shot at quartering too angles destroying a front shoulder and rear quarter. Then they complain when the meat they get doesn't equal what they thought they should get but the notes on the cut sheet say shot through both shoulder and rear quarters on the sheet. Bottom line a proper placed bullet of any kind behind the shoulder with a quartering away or broadside saves the most meat. Take your time don't rush a shot wait for the right moment or pass the shot. All day long when they bring in the deer we say "your going to lose some of your meat because you "butt" shot it.. We Hear "well it was the only shot I had.. Its almost sickening the liquid mess or deer parts we have to toss out because its unsalvageable. The most ethical hunters in my opinion are bowhunters. 95% of the shots are behind the shoulder in chest. Gun hunting I hunt out of the same close set up stands I use to bowhunt. I get tired of hearing about 400 yard shots with modern stuff. Why brag about not being able to get close to a deer and taking a more ethical shot then gut shooting it at 400 yards with a 6.5 manbun round (6.5 creed). A 45 cal muzzleloader does just fine, as does any suitable caliber/gauge. It all comes down to user error with lost game. Of course hunters blame the broadhead, bullet/ball, I clipped a tree, the deer moved right when i shot, the buck was chasing a doe and wouldn't stop etc etc etc. I am glad they bring us deer though as we stay in business, but sometimes I really question the morality of my fellow "sportsman/woman".
Every year here is the cycle with gun hunting. First weekend big bucks, second week small bucks, last weekend 40-50 pound fawns galore. I don't mind the fawns they pay the same, take a third of the time and materials to package etc. But when you pay $125 to get 15-20 pounds of meat maybe - thats on you buddy.

"Tis quite true. The same yahoos (see Gulliver's Travels) that I hear saying my .54 flintlock rifle won't kill anything past 50 yards IF it will kill a deer at all, are the same bunch that can't shoot a group within a 6" circle at 100 yards with modern stuff and an optic. OH their chosen rifle w/scope could..., but they don't work at getting that rifle to do so. They can't estimate range with the naked eye to save their lives, and heaven forbid they invest in a range finder. Add to your horror stories the wounded deer I've had to dispatch because of the poor hit on the animal, and the animal then wandering into a neighborhood slowly dying of infection and/or starvation.

"I can't believe I missed that deer,"...no you "hit" it but it was a poor hit,.... "Well no blood so I must've missed ; I wonder how I did that" ..., um, inaccurate load, poor marksmanship, maybe both, and maybe you didn't "miss"..., "You need a (insert name of modern, light anti-tank cartridge here) to kill a deer where I hunt" ... or maybe use something accurate at a reasonable range and learn to shoot well combined with where to hit the animal....

I'm happy to say that all of the deer I've helped folks in my area to "track"..., which are also mostly muzzleloader guys, the deer were properly hit and down near where they were hit..., the hunters just needed to correct how they were going about searching, not shooting.

LD.

 

[smoothshooter]

I had a friend that used a .45 on a large Ohio Whitetail. After letting the deer lie for an hour, the tracking began. We saw the deer was only wounded in the shoulder (70 grains of 3F and .440 roundball). We tracked the big antlered deer to the Scioto river where the deer ran into the river and was never seen again. It was then I knew the .45 was not an adequate caliber for big bodied Ohio Deer. Losing that deer proved that. I shoot a .54 now. .45 caliber for large northern deer .... just say NO.
Ohio Rusty ><>

I would not make an empirical decision on the effectiveness of a caliber based on the results of just one shot.

 

[smoothshooter]

Here is a different perspective from some one who process 1000 plus deer a season. Most hunters will shoot a deer anywhere with any firearm. Probably 40% of the deer we get the front shoulder are mush very little if anything can be saved. Deer are gut shot, shot through the rear quarter, missing legs, shot at quartering too angles destroying a front shoulder and rear quarter. Then they complain when the meat they get doesn't equal what they thought they should get but the notes on the cut sheet say shot through both shoulder and rear quarters on the sheet. Bottom line a proper placed bullet of any kind behind the shoulder with a quartering away or broadside saves the most meat. Take your time don't rush a shot wait for the right moment or pass the shot. All day long when they bring in the deer we say "your going to lose some of your meat because you "butt" shot it.. We Hear "well it was the only shot I had.. Its almost sickening the liquid mess or deer parts we have to toss out because its unsalvageable. The most ethical hunters in my opinion are bowhunters. 95% of the shots are behind the shoulder in chest. Gun hunting I hunt out of the same close set up stands I use to bowhunt. I get tired of hearing about 400 yard shots with modern stuff. Why brag about not being able to get close to a deer and taking a more ethical shot then gut shooting it at 400 yards with a 6.5 manbun round (6.5 creed). A 45 cal muzzleloader does just fine, as does any suitable caliber/gauge. It all comes down to user error with lost game. Of course hunters blame the broadhead, bullet/ball, I clipped a tree, the deer moved right when i shot, the buck was chasing a doe and wouldn't stop etc etc etc. I am glad they bring us deer though as we stay in business, but sometimes I really question the morality of my fellow "sportsman/woman".
Every year here is the cycle with gun hunting. First weekend big bucks, second week small bucks, last weekend 40-50 pound fawns galore. I don't mind the fawns they pay the same, take a third of the time and materials to package etc. But when you pay $125 to get 15-20 pounds of meat maybe - thats on you buddy. PS the shop record for smallest deer is 17 pound skinned hanging weight shot 3 times.

Unfortunately, the least ethical hunters I have ever known were bow hunters.
I worked part time in a gun store/deer check station for 3 years. Out of the 25 or 30 bowhunters I knew in that area, only 2 or 3 were serious about it , and practiced year-around, and passed up on marginal shots. The rest would shoot a few arrows 3 or 4 days before season opened and considered that good enough practice for the year.
I don’t know how many times we would have guys come in during archery season because the had shot all 6 or 7 or 10 of their arrows at deer and needed to buy more, and when asked if they had seen any deer a typical response was something like “ Yeah, saw 6 or seven, hit 5, but they all got away “. One day 3 different customers came in the store and asked if we had seen the 14 point buck standing in a pasture at the edge of town with an arrow sticking out both sides of it’s gut?
It takes a lot to get me riled up, but by the end of the first archery season I worked at that store, I had developed a burning hatred for amateur archers who hunt.
I know there are lots of very skilled and conscientious bowhunters out there, but I have not met many of them.
I have to say that if there had been a state referendum up for voting on that would have banned bowhunting for deer in Missouri, I would have voted for it. Just thinking about it now 20 years later makes my blood start to boil. ( Happy Thoughts-Happy Thoughts-Happy Happy Happy Thoughts . . . . Deep Breaths). Feeling better now. . . ., a little better.
Do rifle hunters needlessly wound deer? Sure, but firearms give a hunter a little more margin for error and are easier to get good hits with than bows.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Unfortunately, the least ethical hunters I have ever known were bow hunters.
I worked part time in a gun store/deer check station for 3 years. Out of the 25 or 30 bowhunters I knew in that area, only 2 or 3 were serious about it , and practiced year-around, and passed up on marginal shots. The rest would shoot a few arrows 3 or 4 days before season opened and considered that good enough practice for the year.
I don’t know how many times we would have guys come in during archery season because the had shot all 6 or 7 or 10 of their arrows at deer and needed to buy more, and when asked if they had seen any deer a typical response was something like “ Yeah, saw 6 or seven, hit 5, but they all got away “. One day 3 different customers came in the store and asked if we had seen the 14 point buck standing in a pasture at the edge of town with an arrow sticking out both sides of it’s gut?
It takes a lot to get me riled up, but by the end of the first archery season I worked at that store, I had developed a burning hatred for amateur archers who hunt.
I know there are lots of very skilled and conscientious bowhunters out there, but I have not met many of them.
I have to say that if there had been a state referendum up for voting on that would have banned bowhunting for deer in Missouri, I would have voted for it. Just thinking about it now 20 years later makes my blood start to boil. ( Happy Thoughts-Happy Thoughts-Happy Happy Happy Thoughts . . . . Deep Breaths). Feeling better now. . . ., a little better.
Do rifle hunters needlessly wound deer? Sure, but firearms give a hunter a little more margin for error and are easier to get good hits with than bows.

Thats just sad to hear. Around here bowhunting is serious business. Just about everyone I know runs top of the line or close to it equipment, some are die hard traditionalist too. Of course theres some that use 4 different arrow sizes and different broadheads etc. So I guess I regress and withdraw my previous comment.

 

[shorthair]

At reasonable distances. 45 in a rifle works well, in an ROA I've killed 3 blacktails at distances under 50 yards all one shot kills but conditions were pretty darn close to perfect, broadside stationary.