1f for 12ga

Just bought 4lb of 1f from grafs for my 12ga SxS. I've used 2f (and lately 3f due to lack of availability locally) but never 1f. All the older literature and oldheads on YouTube say "50cal and above use 1f" but never really got anymore specific than that. Just seeing what yalls experience has been. Does using the 1f in larger bore guns really make a big difference? How much shouldni increase the vol of my charge? Btw I got grafs branded powder which I have heard is just shutzen for a buck cheaper. I'm switching from goex so I'm curious to see how much cleaner it shoots..... anyway been a while though I'd annoy yall with my silly questions.
Edit: I bought 1lb of 2f and I have 1lb of 2f goex left to ween off of lol aswell.

It gives the best patterns with Skycheif load in my 20GA and recoil substantially less. LOVE it. (Don't tell Nathan)

I can’t answer your question regarding 1f but I have numerous 45, 50, 54 and 58 cal rifles. In the 54 and 58s I’ve always gotten better accuracy with 2f compared to 3f. In the smaller calibers I’ve never even tried 2f because they shoot very well with 3f. In my smooth bores I’ve mostly used 2f because of better accuracy. In my Bess I get better results with 3f when using shot. The difference in patterns with it between 2f and 3f is minimal but it being a flint I prefer to use 3f for loads and prime from the same flask. It’ll all go boom but you really won’t know until you try it.

Ware safety glasses.

Acohill1 said:

50cal and above use 1f

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This is nonsense... It's one of those old myths or bits of lore that has been around since muzzleloading made a resurgence in the 1970s.
I can't find any evidence it is older than that, nor can I figure out where it came from.

Lots of people here use finer powder in larger bores,,, most with great success. Coarser powder, like your 1f, is known to produce nice looking patterns on paper, but require a heavier powder charge to regain killing power compared to the finer powders.
Might not always be true (seems few things are universal with smoothbores) but generally coarser powder = coarser fouling.

I use 3 or even 4 f. It hits more like a modern shotgun with the faster burning powder. My useable patterns thin out after 30 yards, I’m not shooting any game farther than that anyway. I would not use 4 f in an old original gun to be extra careful.

I found that 1f gave me a denser pattern at 25 yds. in my 20 ga.

I found that 1f gave nice pattern's but half the pellets bounced back at me, only a few stuck in the wood and rest just marked it!
The reaction on squirrels was even worse resulting in being given a rude gesture and a curse to my parentage!

Consequently I had to use way more powder that screwed the pattern

It screwed the pattern because I then had a similar venting of gas at the muzzle that resembled the little boy bomb!

I'll never use it again but it maybe good with a ball if you add 50% more than a normal dose.

I Didn't know 1f was weaker per volume. Sound like it could be a good load for woodcock? Some #8.

You don't want to hit everything hard just hitting a woodcock is it..

Pheasant.. I have a dog so I can cripple them all. but if no dog and you want to pick them up where they drop lol #4 square load.

Acohill1 said:

Just bought 4lb of 1f from grafs for my 12ga SxS. I've used 2f (and lately 3f due to lack of availability locally) but never 1f. All the older literature and oldheads on YouTube say "50cal and above use 1f" but never really got anymore specific than that. Just seeing what yalls experience has been. Does using the 1f in larger bore guns really make a big difference? How much shouldni increase the vol of my charge? Btw I got grafs branded powder which I have heard is just shutzen for a buck cheaper. I'm switching from goex so I'm curious to see how much cleaner it shoots..... anyway been a while though I'd annoy yall with my silly questions.
Edit: I bought 1lb of 2f and I have 1lb of 2f goex left to ween off of lol aswell.

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There might be a reason there is no 3F available and plenty of 1F

Just saying....

Acohill1 said:

Just bought 4lb of 1f from grafs for my 12ga SxS. I've used 2f (and lately 3f due to lack of availability locally) but never 1f. All the older literature and oldheads on YouTube say "50cal and above use 1f" but never really got anymore specific than that. Just seeing what yalls experience has been. Does using the 1f in larger bore guns really make a big difference? How much shouldni increase the vol of my charge? Btw I got grafs branded powder which I have heard is just shutzen for a buck cheaper. I'm switching from goex so I'm curious to see how much cleaner it shoots..... anyway been a while though I'd annoy yall with my silly questions.
Edit: I bought 1lb of 2f and I have 1lb of 2f goex left to ween off of lol aswell.

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This would be a great opportunity for you to experiment and educate all of us.

Pattern the 1f, 2F and 3f over a chronograph and compare the patterns.
Figure out how much you need to increase the 1f to match the 2f and 3f velocities and pattern the 1f again at those velocities and compare again to the original 2F and 3f patterns.

The we could try to conclude if the pattern efficiency is a function of the speed of the load, or the speed of the powder.

Nath, that's interesting -- the disappointing results you got with Fg. I was thinking I ought to try a pound one of these days, but believe I will pass. Currently out of smoothies anyway. My Miroku Bess with shortened barrel seemed happy as a clam with FFg, for main charge and prime.

BillinOregon said:

Nath, that's interesting -- the disappointing results you got with Fg. I was thinking I ought to try a pound one of these days, but believe I will pass. Currently out of smoothies anyway. My Miroku Bess with shortened barrel seemed happy as a clam with FFg, for main charge and prime.

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I too found poor results with 1Fg in a Bess when shooting squirrels, but 2Fg and even 3Fg did fine.

LD

I 'm no expert but I do use 1F and 2F BP. I have several original double barrel 12's that do really well with square loads. My go to load for Squirrel is 1f - 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 oz of # 5 lead and kills them stone dead. I believe better than modern guns. I also believe the 1F is easier on the old guns (less / slower pressure). I do have 2 replica CVA 12 doubles that I use 2f works ok but not better than 1f I have tried Hodgen Select and pattern are worst. Just have had one CVA jug choked and will be patterning as soon as rain stops. My 2 cents

I use 1F in my 12 ga with shot and ball and get good performance, better than with 2F. I over bought 1F back in my "I am going strictly smooth bore" days and ended up selling 4# at a bargain a couple of years ago at the AL Kentucky rifle show because I knew I wouldn't need it.

I figured if the chips were down, I could use what I have left in my other guns when I ran out of 2F and 3F.

I tried a 1F in my main .54 rifle, I didn't work up a load and shot what I thought was the equivalent load of the 2F I had been using. My groups opened up from the normal cloverleaf to about 3".

I not only shoot birds, but also quite a bit of trap. Recently changed from 2F to 3F in my 12ga and my scores went up. For trap 65gr of 3F Goex.
Doc,

I got a sub one inch group with my Investarms .58 HAWKIN with 1F at 65 yds. I don't hunt it with 1F though, always 70-80 gr 3F as whatever I am hunting with the .58 needs lots of killing. Never tried in anything else but was penetrating the tuna can at 25 yds and best pattern so that's my load for the 20ga.

I was new to black powder back in 1973 , tryed 1FG in both my 12ga , and 10ga shotguns. Went back to 2fg as the 1fg seemed dirtier. Also , was experimenting w/a Peep sighted , Navy Arms Harper's ferry .58 cal. , using a good fitting Lee target Minnie ball. This rifle would bench shoot a 3" group at 100 meters w/ , 80 gr. ffg , or 1fg black. Was trying to flatten the 10" at 50 Yd. , trajectory rainbow , to make the rifle shoot flat enough to kill deer at varying distances , and to eliminate on the fly rainbow trajectory calculations , necessary to estimate where the Minnie ball would strike. Decided I was too dumb to fix the problem , so gave the gun to my hunting buddy. We both killed deer w/ that rifle , but the gun became an orphan in the safe , 'till I gave it to a neighbor. In later yrs. , w/ more knowledge , should have sighted the Minnie rifle in at 60 yds , so the Minnie would hit 5" high mid trajectory , and at 100 meters 5 " low. That might 'a been more usable. Back then , I went to a .50 cal. longrifle , flat shooting to 100 yds. using 80 gr. FFFG , .490 PRB. Killed many deer w/ that. Back in 1972 , the Pa. late flint deer season , and almost no knowledge about m/l rifles , caused many perspective hunters to go into a several yr. dither trying to figure how to effectively use patch round ball rifles for deer. Ancient history now.

lots of good info hear

Eric Krewson said:

I tried a 1F in my main .54 rifle, I didn't work up a load and shot what I thought was the equivalent load of the 2F I had been using. My groups opened up from the normal cloverleaf to about 3".

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Did you try increasing the charge to get a similar velocity? I've found that when switching powders--or powder lots--that loading to the same velocity (rather than using the same volume of powder) typically gives similar accuracy. With Goex 1F in my old .50, I had to increase the charge of 1F about 15 grains by volume (95 gr. Fg gave the same accuracy as 80 gr. Goex FFg).