Muzzleloading Forum .....


Contact - Can't Login?
Login Name Post: Shooting a New Army ....        (Topic#307822)
Sparkitoff 
36 Cal.
Posts: 63
07-10-18 06:28 PM - Post#1693240    


I spent the first time with a New Army revolver at the range. I do not see a "brand" name on the revolver, it just says NEW ARMY MODEL .44. It is all steel but the backstrap.

It came with a powder flask with spout that I measured at 28 grain volumetric.

I used .454 balls. I tried 2 loads:
28 grain FFFg, .455 card, .454 ball and,
30 gr Pyrodex pellet, .455 card and .454 ball.

I used some CCI #10 caps and some Remington #11 caps.

At 12.5 yards my grouping was just 1" high and centered with the 6-shots going into a 3.5" group. I tried to shoot some 25 yard shots using a pistol rest from the bench. The group opened to 8" and the shots landed about 10" high.

Does anyone care to speculate why there is such a huge difference in point of impact between 12.5 and 25 yards? I've never experienced that amount of difference with centerfire pistols so I am not familiar with potential causes.

Any suggestions for a different load that may make an improvement in POI or group size?

Do I need the card wads? I was told by the only black powder pistol person I know that they are intended to prevent double fires but if the ball is big enough they may not be necessary. He also told me some people just set the ball on the powder and put lube over the ball for the same purpose. Is any of this a necessity? Could I put the card over the ball instead?

This was a gift from a friend who inherited it from his brother many years ago. It is a nice, clean revolver and fun to shoot. I'd like to make it a tad more interesting by improving the POI and group size.

Thanks!


Edited by Sparkitoff on 07-10-18 06:29 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Sparkitoff 
36 Cal.
Posts: 63
07-10-18 07:36 PM - Post#1693246    

    In response to Sparkitoff

I take back the brass backstrap. It is only the trigger plate that is brass. Nonetheless....

 
Redstick Lee 
40 Cal.
Posts: 145
Redstick Lee
07-10-18 08:18 PM - Post#1693253    

    In response to Sparkitoff

is it an 8" or 5.5" (threads included) barrel?

is the muzzle crowned?

gotta figure out what you're shooting before working on any loads.

BUT, the grease over ball method, is usually the least effective......next to completely dry shooting.

those cards need some grease/wax mix lube added to them UNLESS you plan on leaving it stored loaded .
--------------------
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner...
Liberty is a well armed lamb !


 
M.D. 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4895
07-10-18 08:43 PM - Post#1693263    

    In response to Sparkitoff

You need to slug the bore and fit the ball to the groove diameter.
Same as with smokeless shooting, the ball or bullet should be at or no more than .001 over groove diameter.
Check chamber mouths as well most are smaller than the barrel groove diameter and if so should be reamed out to the same. Usually chamber diameters vary as well and should all be reamed or lapped out to be the same if you want good accuracy.
Another bug a boo even with modern revolvers is the bore is usually under size (choked) where the barrel goes through the frame and this needs lapped out if so. The bore should be level from breech to muzzle or choked at the muzzle for best accuracy.
Balls are usually more accurate then bullets unless mechanically seated out of the gun.

 
Sparkitoff 
36 Cal.
Posts: 63
07-10-18 09:59 PM - Post#1693265    

    In response to M.D.

This is an 8" barrel model.

 
Redstick Lee 
40 Cal.
Posts: 145
Redstick Lee
07-11-18 03:48 AM - Post#1693277    

    In response to Sparkitoff

8" steel frame New Model Army = for targets @ 25 yds drop your powder charge to 20 grains 3F , use a 1/4" or 3/8" felt "wonder wad" or home made substitute (punchings from an old thrift store felt hat are great) and at least a .454 ball.....
.457 would work also.

as long as you use soft lead balls and shave lead rings when loading, you should be ok for diameter
--------------------
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner...
Liberty is a well armed lamb !


Edited by Redstick Lee on 07-11-18 03:52 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
hadden west 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2251
hadden west
07-11-18 10:07 AM - Post#1693309    

    In response to Sparkitoff

look under the ram rod, might be a name

 
tac 
62 Cal.
Posts: 2852
07-11-18 10:49 AM - Post#1693315    

    In response to Sparkitoff

Drop the use of Pyrodex pellets. They are intended for use primarily in the type of rifle that we do not talk about here, and, in my experience, as about as much use in a handgun as shooting marshmallows.

tac

 
juice jaws 
40 Cal.
Posts: 413
juice jaws
07-11-18 10:49 AM - Post#1693316    

    In response to Sparkitoff

All my six guns shoot high at 25 yards. About the same as yours 10 or 12 inches. I use mostly wonder wads, like them, never had a problem with chain firing. Also use pre-made loads with zig-zags papers with no lube. Made sure your ball shaves lead and the caps are on tight and you should never have a problem with chain firing.

 
m-g willy 
40 Cal.
Posts: 225
07-11-18 06:42 PM - Post#1693352    

    In response to Sparkitoff

The difference between the hits at 12 1/2 yards and 25 yards is because your ball is rising..You need a taller front sight. No need to worry about ball sizes seeing you are setting the size of the ball every time you seat one in the cylinder..If you are cutting a ring off the ball when seating ,,you are using the right size ball..."""If""" you want to check ball size with barrel and cylinder size. Push a ball through the barrel, then check it's fit in cylinder mouth..If the ball is to big to slip into the cylinder after being shoved through the barrel,,Then your cylinder is to tight and needs opened up.


 
Zug 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1291
07-12-18 11:43 AM - Post#1693433    

    In response to m-g willy

A bullet when fired from a firearm does not “rise” as it leaves the muzzle it exits the muzzle in a straight line then immediately starts to fall to earth from gravity where it eventually ends up. Look at the image and you will see three paths related to the bullet’s trajectory. They are important to the shooter, first is the “line of sight”, second is the “bullet’s trajectory”, and third is the “line of departure”. To impact a target you must elevate the muzzle to some extent to account for gravity – how much depends on velocity of the projectile, distance to the target, weight of projectile and a few other “players” but these are the main ones that effect the flight of the projectile to impact the target at the desired location.
I got this image & info from <http://www.rifleshootermag.com/>
"It doesn’t take a master’s degree in math or physics to understand a rifle bullet’s trajectory. The illustration above is exaggerated to show how the bullet, which is always falling away from the Line of Departure, intersects the Line of Sight at two distances, the second of which is the range at which the rifle is zeroed."



 
Redstick Lee 
40 Cal.
Posts: 145
Redstick Lee
07-13-18 08:07 PM - Post#1693585    

    In response to Zug

the perception of "rise" is caused by recoil (muzzle lift) during muzzle blast........it is real, just misunderstood as to the cause
--------------------
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner...
Liberty is a well armed lamb !


Edited by Redstick Lee on 07-13-18 08:08 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
GoodCheer 
Cannon
Posts: 6117
GoodCheer
07-13-18 08:09 PM - Post#1693586    

    In response to Redstick Lee

What would you imagine the inch per second movement upwards of the muzzle might be during recoil?

 
m-g willy 
40 Cal.
Posts: 225
07-13-18 08:24 PM - Post#1693589    

    In response to Zug

The bullet rises to the line of sight because the muzzle is pointed upwards....If you sight a gun to hit poa poi at 100 yards,,The bullet will rise above the line of sight somewhere between muzzle and poi on target..I will not give you how high or at what distance because it will be different depending on bullet dia,,shape ,,vel. wind and tempture, and ALTITUDE...Hope I didn't leave anything out!...


 
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Print Topic


349 Views
Welcome Guest...
Enter your Login Name and password to login. If you do not have a username you can register one here

Login Name

Password

Remember me. Help



Login Not Working?...

Registered Members
Total: 32016
Todays
Birthdays
7-18Va.Manuf.06
7-18Mark Chabot
7-18B.Habermehl
7-18kemart17
Current Quote
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
~ Thomas Jefferson

PRIVACY POLICY
FusionBB™ Version 3.0 FINAL | ©2003-2010 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.109 seconds.   Total Queries: 60  
All times are (GMT-5). Current time is 02:04 PM
Top