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M.D. 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4601
12-16-13 07:07 PM - Post#1343237    


Was wondering if anyone is regularly using the fines from granulation break up of pound cans of courser grained powder for pan use.
I know some folks regularly "sock" their powder before use and was thinking that what is separated would make good pan powder. Mike D.

 
mtmike 
Passed On
Posts: 773
mtmike
12-16-13 07:26 PM - Post#1343249    

    In response to M.D.

I would think it would I know a time or two when I ran short of ffffg,I just used the same powder(FFFg)that I use for the main charge,it could work or it might just "fizzle",luckily you are asking some knowledgeable folks here.

 
excess650 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1017
excess650
12-16-13 07:33 PM - Post#1343252    

    In response to M.D.

I don't do that, but if you were into "screening" your powder, the fines would work as pan powder.

 
M.D. 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4601
12-16-13 07:38 PM - Post#1343256    

    In response to mtmike

It just dawned on me that I may never need to by another can of 4F for pan powder if socked powder fines serve the same purpose. Actually some of it is probably smaller than 4 F granulation. Mike D.

 
azmntman 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4648
azmntman
12-16-13 08:06 PM - Post#1343269    

    In response to M.D.

3fff works just was well in my CVA .50 flinter.

 
Pletch 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1270
12-16-13 08:16 PM - Post#1343275    

    In response to M.D.

  • M.D. Said:
Was wondering if anyone is regularly using the fines from granulation break up of pound cans of courser grained powder for pan use.
I know some folks regularly "sock" their powder before use and was thinking that what is separated would make good pan powder. Mike D.



If your powder brand uses graphite as a coating, a large amount of the fines may be graphite. My gut says that with Goex the fines will be graphite in part. Your idea is worth testing though.
Regards,
Pletch


 
Colorado Clyde 
Cannon
Posts: 12350
Colorado Clyde
12-16-13 08:29 PM - Post#1343280    

    In response to Pletch

I had the Idea of screening awhile back screend some 3f goex and didnt get enough to bother.

 
Cynthialee 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4985
Cynthialee
12-16-13 08:57 PM - Post#1343293    

    In response to M.D.

3F is working in my Queen Ann pistols' pan just fine and dandy.
{Insert witty phrase or saying here}



 
huntsman247 
40 Cal.
Posts: 124
12-16-13 08:59 PM - Post#1343295    

    In response to Cynthialee

Me too, 3F main charge and in the pan; works for me.

 
M.D. 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4601
12-16-13 09:04 PM - Post#1343296    

    In response to Colorado Clyde

Long range shooters screen or sock for consistency that results in low standard deviation numbers that are important for the vertical cone of dispersion at 800-900 and 1,000 yards.
The sieved fines accumulate after awhile and me thinks they just might make good pan powder.
I will sieve some of all the different brands and granulations I have, take a gander at it and give each a try. Mike D.


 
Captjoel 
45 Cal.
Posts: 937
12-17-13 03:33 AM - Post#1343340    

    In response to M.D.

It will be interesting to see your results but seems like an awful lot of trouble when a one pound can of 4F will last an average shooter a number of years.

 
M.D. 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4601
12-17-13 04:21 AM - Post#1343341    

    In response to Captjoel

I have a gold sieve that should be about the right screen size and if it will hold 3F and let every thing else through it should be quick and easy to separate the fines which makes for better accuracy anyway being we generally use volumetric measuring for our powder charges with muzzle loaders. Mike D.

Edited by M.D. on 12-17-13 04:22 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Billnpatti 
Cannon
Posts: 7252
Billnpatti
12-17-13 07:59 AM - Post#1343378    

    In response to M.D.

I did a quick search online for gold sieves and found that they come in several mesh sizes. what mesh size would you recommend for sieving 3f powder?

 
Kopfjaeger 
40 Cal.
Posts: 368
Kopfjaeger
12-17-13 09:00 AM - Post#1343398    

    In response to M.D.

I use FFFG in all my rifles as a priming powder and it works fine for me.

Another thing you can do if you want to use just one powder is use a pestle and mortar ( wood only ) to grind down some of your FFFG to a finer power.

It's a little bit of work but it eliminates buying FFFFG.

 
Rifleman1776 
Cannon
Posts: 13543
Rifleman1776
12-17-13 09:02 AM - Post#1343399    

    In response to M.D.

I don't do it but can't think of a reason not to. Avoids waste with your procedure.

 
M.D. 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4601
12-17-13 12:39 PM - Post#1343509    

    In response to Billnpatti

I don't have a recommendation yet Bill until I give it a try. I will in the next few days and give a run down on how it works with what I have.
If I can get it to work I will post some pictures of the sieving and the fines it produces as well. Mike D.

Edited by M.D. on 12-17-13 12:40 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
M.D. 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4601
12-17-13 11:07 PM - Post#1343866    

    In response to Billnpatti

Bill, this is my little comparative sieve test tonight. I sieved for one minute for each pound of 3F Goex, 1.5 Swiss, 2F Goex and lastly 2F Goex Express. The sieve was a CF-30 mesh stainless steel screen.
I have no idea of what the mesh is for the various granulation size.
I was amazed at how much 3F went through and how little of the other did.
3F
This is the granulation size difference of what went through and what didn't of the 3F.

1.5 Swiss

2F Goex

2F Goex Express

The fines from the 3F totaled about 3.5 ounces but this could have been because of improper mesh size of my sieve.
I'd say sieving 3F Goex will make all the pan powder one could ever use along with cleaning up 3F consistency in volumetric loading.
All were new unopened cans of powder. Mike D.


Edited by M.D. on 12-17-13 11:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
excess650 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1017
excess650
12-18-13 06:29 AM - Post#1343926    

    In response to M.D.

Excellent! Thanks for posting.

 
flash_in_the_pan 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1205
flash_in_the_pan
12-18-13 01:32 PM - Post#1344063    

    In response to M.D.

I've never screened the coarser powders for priming use, but I've used FFFg Goex as priming powder many times, and prefer it to FFFFg when it's damp or snowy. I don't really notice a difference in discharge timing and a few grains is all I need for any flinter I've ever used.

 
White Fox 
40 Cal.
Posts: 407
12-18-13 02:42 PM - Post#1344093    

    In response to M.D.

Once upon a time when poor inventory management left me with only some 2Fg Goex, I followed the advice of an old shooter named Horsetooth, whose dentition was somewhat striking.

He advised placing a sheet of typing paper on a smooth table, spreading the 2Fg on it a teaspoon at a time, covering with another sheet of paper, and rolling a wine bottle back and forth to "crack" the powder granules. Horsetooth said this would open up the inside of the granules. With enough rolling the resultant powder did flow through the valve on the little flask, and worked great.

I only did this once, as I had some concerns about safety. Comments from others on this?

White Fox

 
M.D. 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4601
12-18-13 03:46 PM - Post#1344112    

    In response to White Fox

It is safe to do. No fire, no explosion and no, static will not set it off either.
I tested this placing several different pinches of powder on my anvil and hitting it with a 2 pound hammer until it was dust and it would not ignite. Mike D.

 
ChrisPer 
45 Cal.
Posts: 581
12-19-13 05:36 AM - Post#1344376    

    In response to M.D.

I do something like that but with a copper slab and a glass vial. Roll 3P to fine dust.

Its not quite as fast as Swiss priming powder, but its a lot better than the 3P.

 
Kopfjaeger 
40 Cal.
Posts: 368
Kopfjaeger
12-19-13 06:22 PM - Post#1344670    

    In response to ChrisPer

That method would work. But a cheap investment in a wood mortar and pestle ( which I mentioned before ) would be a lot neater, easier to work with and less of a chance of powder being lost. You can find them easily on e-bay.

 
Dan Phariss 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4622
Dan Phariss
12-19-13 07:48 PM - Post#1344701    

    In response to M.D.

  • M.D. Said:
Was wondering if anyone is regularly using the fines from granulation break up of pound cans of courser grained powder for pan use.
I know some folks regularly "sock" their powder before use and was thinking that what is separated would make good pan powder. Mike D.



If you are having granulation breakdown with current powder I would see if I could find better powder. If there was enough to have a supply of priming I would really find another powder.

Older GOEX made at Moosic was prone to this but the fines were not really complete powder. Much of this was caused by sulfur oxidizing bacteria in the water used to make the powder. It was dusty but the fines were not really powder, being fines created by bugs eating the sulfur. It was not possible to use another powder at the time so it had to be worked around. IE throwing away powder that was simply useless. Once Swiss came to America I switched to that. It does not break down or have "bugs".

Dan

 
GoodCheer 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5990
GoodCheer
12-19-13 09:53 PM - Post#1344754    

    In response to Dan Phariss

Try some Jacks Battle.

 
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