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Login Name Post: removeable breech plug        (Topic#275400)
newtewsmoke 
45 Cal.
Posts: 525
12-13-12 09:13 PM - Post#1226264    


why don't the ML manufacturers build our style of rifles, shotguns, smoothies, etc. with breech plugs designed to be (easily) removed? Is it a deal covering theirselves so they don't get sued bc someone didn't get one put back in properly and it blew apart and injured or killed someone? I was just thinkin, it'd sure make cleanin' ALOT easier, plus there'd be a whole lot less to discuss here on MLF.

 
Va.Manuf.06 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2399
12-13-12 09:34 PM - Post#1226271    

    In response to newtewsmoke

Huh?

 
1601phill 
62 Cal.
Posts: 2816
12-13-12 09:43 PM - Post#1226280    

    In response to newtewsmoke

YEES one that simply unscrewed would be the go

 
Cynthialee 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4985
Cynthialee
12-13-12 09:59 PM - Post#1226283    

    In response to newtewsmoke

because then they wouldn't be old school, they'd be closer to modern style 'muzzle loaders'

 
M.D. 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4512
12-13-12 10:02 PM - Post#1226284    

    In response to 1601phill

I pull the breech plug on my Yazel every time I clean it although I suppose it wouldn't be necessary. Looks to me like it was designed that way. Same deal on all the nipples on my revolvers.
Black powder residue gets into every part of them from shooting even a few shots and needs to be thoroughly cleaned if there put away for any length of time, in my opinion.
When I bought the ROA used it looked immaculate on the exterior but when I got it apart corrosion was starting on some of the interior parts because it had not been broken down,cleaned and re-lubed before I got it.
I've only had the breech plug out of my .54 twice since I re-barreled it about 20 years ago and it wouldn't hurt to take another look.
The .45 underhammer has only been out once and the .58 Hawken hunter never so it would be good for me to take my own advice and give them a look see. MD

 
argo69 
32 Cal.
Posts: 24
argo69
12-13-12 10:59 PM - Post#1226294    

    In response to Cynthialee

  • cynthialee Said:
because then they wouldn't be old school, they'd be closer to modern style 'muzzle loaders'


You can`t get any older school than a 1837 Harpers Ferry 69cal smouth bore. I always unscrewed the breech plug after shooting it to clean it & it always lined up like it was supposed to when I screwed it back in & tighten it up.

 
1601phill 
62 Cal.
Posts: 2816
12-13-12 11:48 PM - Post#1226299    

    In response to Cynthialee

Guys lod school breech plugs do just unscrew, the first 2 replys werea what the

 
Loyalist Dave 
Cannon
Posts: 6029
Loyalist Dave
12-14-12 06:33 AM - Post#1226330    

    In response to 1601phill

Since when?

You may find an old barrel that somebody unbreeched, and then simply screwed back in..., and they might unscrew with a wrench in one hand and the barrel in the other, and yes you can return that to the same tightness. But my experience with antique guns that are properly breeched is that you need a barrel vise and a wrench to get them out, and to re-align them back into original position. I wouldn't assume that since the gun was intact, and the breech plug can be removed and replace by hand, that such is how the gun should be.

Now I haven't had to unbreech more than a dozen barrels in my time, so I suppose I got ten or so that weren't the norm...,

As far as why modern folks don't do this..., it's liability in some cases, and in others, because of the gun style, they wouldn't want you removing the barrel every time. Not all barrels use keys and a hook breech, or even a tang screw. Some guns are SxS, caplock or flintlock, and they especially would not want the shooter to unbreech the barrels.

LD

 
KV Rummer 
40 Cal.
Posts: 266
12-14-12 08:55 AM - Post#1226372    

    In response to newtewsmoke

I have a flintlock built by RMC Sports that has a Green Mountain barrel with a removable breech plug like those used on in-lines.

It also had a laminated stock and a L&R lock. It was pure utility, not intended to be PC or HC.



 
newtewsmoke 
45 Cal.
Posts: 525
12-14-12 09:10 AM - Post#1226377    

    In response to newtewsmoke

  • newtewsmoke Said:
designed to be (easily) removed?


by easily i mean not requiring a vise, special wrench and a 4' cheater pipe. I havent ever took one out and don't plan to, just thinkin and askin i guess.

 
Va.Manuf.06 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2399
12-14-12 09:37 AM - Post#1226389    

    In response to newtewsmoke

What can be easier than filling the barrel with water, allowing to stand, drain - repeat. Then drying the barrel with 4 or 5 patches and oiling? Much easier and safer than having a breach plug that you can unscrew with your fingers.

 
Billnpatti 
Cannon
Posts: 7229
Billnpatti
12-14-12 10:39 AM - Post#1226424    

    In response to newtewsmoke

Is such a thing really necessary? And if it didn't look like a traditional rifle, I wouldn't want it. It's just an asthetics thing with me. You really don't ever need to remove a breachplug to clean your rifle. besides, removing a breachplug from a traditional rifle without the necessary tools can result in boogering up your breachplug and your barrel. You can't simply clamp a barrel in a vice and unscrew the breachplug with a crescent wrench. If you do, you will surely booger it up. It simply is not necessary to remove a breachplug to properly clean a barrel and keep it from corroding. A proper cleaning technique is all you need. So an easily removable breach? Just can't see any reason for it.

 
Va.Manuf.06 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2399
12-14-12 11:35 AM - Post#1226462    

    In response to Billnpatti

  • Billnpatti Said:
.................... A proper cleaning technique is all you need.




Exactly, well said.

 
newtewsmoke 
45 Cal.
Posts: 525
12-14-12 01:19 PM - Post#1226521    

    In response to Va.Manuf.06

ok,ok,ok, it wuz just an idea i wuz thinkin over.

 
WH.50 
36 Cal.
Posts: 87
WH.50
12-14-12 01:35 PM - Post#1226530    

    In response to Va.Manuf.06

Maybe,I'm the black sheep here but I find it easier to clean my hooked breech rifles than I do my rifles with removable breech plugs. With a hooked breech rifle you patch the barrel until clean,dry,& oil. With a removable plug you patch the barrel until clean,dry,& oil,and then you clean the plug,clean the threads the plug screws into,(this is the toughest part),lube the threads on the plug and screw the plug back in. To me a removable breech plug just adds extra steps to the cleaning process for no real benefit.

Edited by WH.50 on 12-14-12 01:39 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
ohio ramrod 
75 Cal.
Posts: 5736
12-14-12 02:41 PM - Post#1226569    

    In response to newtewsmoke

While there are a FEW cases where removing the breech plug is neccasary 95 % or more of the traditional guns will never need the breechplugs removed. Therefore it doesn't justify a change in manufactoring from the traditional methods.

 
Ft. Jefferson 
40 Cal.
Posts: 375
12-14-12 04:51 PM - Post#1226626    

    In response to ohio ramrod

I've been building and shooting muzzleloading firearms since 1976 and have NEVER YET had to "unbreech" a barrel. Not once!!! Getting a stuck "anything" out of a barrel IS NOT rocket science! Unless the plug itself is compromised in some fashion: cracked, stripped out, leaking etc. At the very least, i've not seen it yet. There's always that first time. Oh Well! Buzzard

 
hounddog 
40 Cal.
Posts: 162
12-14-12 05:37 PM - Post#1226653    

    In response to Ft. Jefferson

actually folks there have been a few made with removable breech plugs i owned a h&r topper mloader years ago. the gun was made just like a top break single bbl shotgun the early one had a machined b plug with a o ring on it you just unbreached the gun and using the ramrod punched it out. several years later i bought another h&r mloader the later one had a threaded breeck plug. funny thing i shot my first gun a lot was very auccrate and never had a problem with the breech plug it was just as safe as a flinter or percussion gun after all you do get a little gas escapage with any style you use. so yes it has been dome. frankly it would not bother me a bit to take a traditional styled mloader and machine a square sholder a 1/2 inch to 5/8 deep in the breech end and turn down a very snug fitting breechplug and the drill a 1/4 to 5/16 hole all the way thru the back of the bbl and breechplug and put in a good grade pin in. i am sure a bunch of you will have some naughty comments out that ideal but you do have to try new things in order to make progress. well i will shut up and see what kind of hornets nest i stired up this time. just remember you are entitled to your opnion and i am also entitled to mine. dont worry fellas i would not allow any to shoot it untill i personally had shoot it and determined to my satisfaction that is was save. so if anybody were to get their head blowed it would be me. i will put my money where my mouth is anytime yours hounddog

 
Rifleman1776 
Cannon
Posts: 13328
Rifleman1776
12-14-12 06:36 PM - Post#1226688    

    In response to hounddog

  • Quote:
you do have to try new things in order to make progress


Depends on what you call progress. For most here "progress" stopped whith the advent of breech loading cartridge guns. We want it the old way.
And, those top break H&Rs faded out of sight because the breeches could be removed and most game commissions outlawed them for ml hunting seasons. One of them could be chambered with a 45-70 if the breech plug was pulled out. I guess some would call that progress.

 
Stumpkiller 
Moderator
Posts: 17175
Stumpkiller
12-14-12 06:54 PM - Post#1226698    

    In response to Rifleman1776

Seems to me the point of traditional equipment is to go in the opposite diection of progress. How did they do it and am I good enough to learn their techniques rather than use the crutch of technlogical innovation? ;-)
"Don't take life too serious - it ain't nohow permanent."


 
Walks with fire 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1842
12-14-12 09:45 PM - Post#1226764    

    In response to Stumpkiller

I also have an RMC flintlock rifle with the removable plug. It's a feature that I do not like at all. You must take the plug out and clean it and put more grease plug grease on it every time it's shot. It's more mess than I have with my standard TC guns when cleaning.

If I had the choice I wouldn't want a removable plug. I do like the hooked breach type barrel that can be removed from the stock for cleaning though. The only possible benifit from the removable plug is that the gun can be unloaded without firing it. It's messy but remove the barrel from the stock and stick it in a bucket of water to dampen the charge then remove the plug and clean the gun.

I never dry balled an RMC but it would require removing the plug when a TC flinter can be cleared with a little powder behind the ball; can't do that with the removable plug.

 
jdkerstetter 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3029
jdkerstetter
12-14-12 09:58 PM - Post#1226769    

    In response to Stumpkiller

This thread is like stinky socks. I know I shouldn't be smellin' it but I can't help myself and have to see what kind "ideas" will come up.

In-lines by H&R....quick disconnect pins through breech plugs. Really? If what one wants is a removable breech plug then buy one of those new fangled things that has one. Why bother with a traditional muzzleloader if it's not?

Ease of cleaning? As above, I don't see how cleaning is that tough.

I understand some folks are only into muzzleloaders to extend their hunting season but wish they would just except what is and what was and not try and "improve it". If we wanted improved we wouldn't have muzzleloader seasons...or achery for that matter.

Obviously I'm in the traditional column here. Glad I'm not alone. Enjoy, J.D.

 
hawkeye2 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2145
12-14-12 10:06 PM - Post#1226773    

    In response to hounddog

The reason that H&R went away from the O ring breech and to a threaded breech plug was because a shooter was killed by one back in the 70's. He had a hangfire, lowered the gun, broke it open and it went off. He took the plug in the forehead.

I can't think of any reason I would want an easily removed breech plug but I can think of a couple why I wouldn't.

 
newtewsmoke 
45 Cal.
Posts: 525
12-14-12 11:45 PM - Post#1226811    

    In response to newtewsmoke

Why dont we just shoot this dam discussion and put it out of its misery? I dont want my ml'ers to be like the modern guns and i dont have problems gettin my guns clean. Was just kickin 'round an idea and thot i'd throw it out there.

 
necchi 
Cannon
Posts: 11690
necchi
12-15-12 01:19 AM - Post#1226825    

    In response to newtewsmoke


Just can't get away from'm can ya,,
Hubris! Hubris! Heaven forbid a Paggen thought!

 
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