Long Rifle ?

So I have been reading some of the threads on this site and am trying to understand some things about the Pennslvania Long Rifle.

Were all the guns made in Lehigh and Bucks County area all fancy engraved with ten pounds of brass on the stock?

Was it common to have a nice gun (in 1775 time frame) with a metal patch box / end cap and an otherwise plain gun. Basically, was everything either overly plain or overly fancy in this region or were there middle of the road guns.

If there is a thread already discussing this could someone point me towards it?

I want to have a gun built correct for this region but don't wanna over or under do it.

I imagine most were fairly plain and/or with a modest amount of engraving or carving. Really fancy ones were built, for sure, but a longhunter, farmer or explorer would not normally pay for a fancy rifle that would get rough use. There were exceptions so plain or fancy you would find them being built together.

So basically would I be correct in saying you could have one made pretty much however, as it's up to personal interpretation?

Of course as long as the stock lines kept with style of the region.

The earlier ones were plainer (two piece patchbox) than the later "golde age" longrifles.

Just south of Lehigh County, the Bucks Co. school appears to have evolved from that school. (Early pieces are very similar.)

The lower surface of the shank is evenly curved from the departure to the shank cap and mostly more strong than the comb.

Although patchboxes of the Bucks school can be developed up to four parts, most are simple; only with rifles of this school do the covers open downward. Although most patchboxes are plain, some are very beautifully engraved.

Well-known builders were Andrew Verner (Richland Twp.), George Weiker (Quakertown), and John Shuler (Milford Twp.).

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Pennsylvania Newt said:

So I have been reading some of the threads on this site and am trying to understand some things about the Pennslvania Long Rifle.

Were all the guns made in Lehigh and Bucks County area all fancy engraved with ten pounds of brass on the stock?

Was it common to have a nice gun (in 1775 time frame) with a metal patch box / end cap and an otherwise plain gun. Basically, was everything either overly plain or overly fancy in this region or were there middle of the road guns.

If there is a thread already discussing this could someone point me towards it?

I want to have a gun built correct for this region but don't wanna over or under do it.

Click to expand...

Generally speaking American rifles in 1775 had some carving on them. Its the way they were and it was expected. Even the circa 1780s English made indian trade rifles were relief carved "Kentuckies". Heck the Brown Bess had carving around the breech tang.
Engraved? Maybe, maybe not. Inlays were not so much until later though some wire work was known in 1775 and cheekpiece inlays were fairly common.

Dan

Most of the existing guns from these areas pictured in Rifles of Colonial American are attributed to a later time period 1780's or 1790's. They are also ornately carved and engraved. That's not to say that they didn't exist, there just doesn't appear to be any plain guns that made it to the 21st century. It all depends on how correct you want the rifle to be. Lots of folks today shoot plain rifles that are shaped in the style of the origional guns. But like Dan said, even the Brown bess had a molding around the tang & lock area.

Pennsylvania Newt said:

So basically would I be correct in saying you could have one made pretty much however, as it's up to personal interpretation?

Of course as long as the stock lines kept with style of the region.

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I think, yes, this is probably correct. The customer ordered what he wanted/liked and if it was always the builder's habit to put on a bit of carving, then the customer got that too. I've seen a couple of very plain longrifles in museums so some of them did last. I also know of a couple that were passed down through the family that were very plain. It was a custom rifle and they made them (frequently) one at a time, especially in small shops.

If you can find a copy of "Longrifles of Western Pennsylvania", there are pics of plain and fancy longrifles.

A lot depends on the time that you are asking about.

I feel fairly safe in saying that the longrifles made in Pennsylvania in the 1773-1783 era were fairly plain however they had nose caps and patch boxes. Most had some carving although not a lot.

Later, in the 1784-1800 period the patch boxes got fancier, the carvings got more elaborate and inlays were rather common. This is the "Golden Age" period when many of the fancy rifles that were made are still in existence.

Pa Newt, you might also want to take a look at The Pennsylvania/Kentucky Rifle by Henry Kauffman. Descriptions of each Pa school and lots of pictures. Between this and Mike's suggestion :bow: you should have much to go on. :thumbsup:

The Lehigh and Bucks Co rifles are my favorites. I find their sleek lines very appealing, whether plain or decorated.

If you're going to have one built, you might enjoy the 18th Century Artisan Show in Lewisburg, Pa in early Feb. Many of today's best known builders are there. I only mention this because three of my contempory rifles have come from that show. Two Bucks Co and one Lehigh.

You'll have real trouble convincing some on this site that Bucks County or Lehigh rifles existed before 1790, at least in any recognizable form. Verner and Shuler, as Shumway has shown, were after the Revolutionary War. I don't recall for Weiker, but I believe that's the case for him as well.

J. Daub may have been earlier, and the rifle I know of by him is definitely Bucks Co. style. Wm. Antes is another whose style I find similar, and he is early, although I don't know that some would include him in the Bucks County School (although Verner was technically Montgomery Co. as well). Hermann Rupp and the other famous makers of the Lehigh School were also Post-Revolution.

The Bucks County style often featured more incised carving than relief carving. One common characteristic was also the bottom hinged, side-opening patchbox.

Lehigh rifles often featured an "Indian head" either on the patchbox or behind the ramrod entry-pipe.

The elder John Rupp and J.Moll operated a genetration before Hermann in Macungie township. Problem is, when you make a rifle and the British who still claim your region frown on facing them do you sign it? Many early (we assume) Northampton/Bethlehem/Allentown/Lehigh rifles are unsigned and undated.

The "Indian Head" you mention is wearing a Phrygian Liberty Cap on many rifles and has been interpreted as a liberty head - just the thing for a patriot. And when some "Lobsterback" gives it the hairy eyeball you could say: "Naw, it's just an Indian Head."

Pennsylvania Newt said:

So I have been reading some of the threads on this site and am trying to understand some things about the Pennslvania Long Rifle.

Were all the guns made in Lehigh and Bucks County area all fancy engraved with ten pounds of brass on the stock?

Was it common to have a nice gun (in 1775 time frame) with a metal patch box / end cap and an otherwise plain gun. Basically, was everything either overly plain or overly fancy in this region or were there middle of the road guns.

If there is a thread already discussing this could someone point me towards it?

I want to have a gun built correct for this region but don't wanna over or under do it.

Click to expand...

There are certainly some generalities that I would point you towards for 1775. A rifle in 1775 would typically be in the .50 to.58 caliber range, have a buttplate that was 1¾" to 2" wide or more, with just a slight curve to help deal with the heavier recoil of these large caliber rifles. A rifle of that era would have either no patchbox, a sliding wood patchbox, or a solid brass patchbox as opposed to the pierced brass patchboxes that showed up in the golden age. Incise and relief carvings in the Rococo (sp?) style would be common and perhaps a thumb medallion would be inlet on the top of the wrist to commemorate some special event. They would usually have a deadly graceful look to them, but without much in the way of ornamentation.

The locks would usually be English as they were imported by the barrel from England before the war and the colonies were "forbidden" to manufacture locks. The War changed all that of course, but we're talking 1775 here, so the colonies weren't making their own locks in any kind of numbers at this point.

The hardware would primarily be brass as it was easy to come by, easy to work, durable, and again, the colonies were not supposed to be manufacturing steel. Nosecaps and ramrod pipes were normal. The forearm of the stock was a lot thinner and more graceful than many of the reproductions you'll see.

The Golden Age of the Longrifle came about AFTER the Revolutionary war. That was when the most decorative and artistic examples of the longrifle were built. The war was over, the demand for rifles diminished tremendously and if you wanted to sell rifles, you needed to really distinguish yours from what everyone else was selling. That's when all the brass embellishments started showing up such as the hunting stars along the forearm, weeping hearts around the wrist, pierced patchboxes, etc. That's also the time that the crescent shape of the buttplate became very pronounced, and, as the caliber of the rifles dropped down to .45 and .40 range, the butt of the stock also became much thinner. You just didn't need as wide a butt to deal with the lighter recoil on 40-45 caliber rifles than you did with 50-58 caliber rifles.

Hope this helps a bit,

Twisted_1in66

I'm wondering about the prevalence of long rifles further north - specifically in Canada. Were they ever popular among citizens of Ontario? It seems likely, being as Southern Ontario is more or less surrounded by US territories.

While not free, these small books present a good understanding of the evolution of longrifle styles in Bucks, Berks, Lehigh, and Northampton counties (Lehigh valley) and in Lancaster County.
http://www.gabelguns.com/ForSale/BooksDescription.asp

Mr Gable is a past president of the Kentucky Rifle Assn. and a member of the American Society of Arms Collectors.

colmoultrie said:

You'll have real trouble convincing some on this site that Bucks County or Lehigh rifles existed before 1790, at least in any recognizable form. Verner and Shuler, as Shumway has shown, were after the Revolutionary War. I don't recall for Weiker, but I believe that's the case for him as well.

J. Daub may have been earlier, and the rifle I know of by him is definitely Bucks Co. style. Wm. Antes is another whose style I find similar, and he is early, although I don't know that some would include him in the Bucks County School (although Verner was technically Montgomery Co. as well). Hermann Rupp and the other famous makers of the Lehigh School were also Post-Revolution.

The Bucks County style often featured more incised carving than relief carving. One common characteristic was also the bottom hinged, side-opening patchbox.

Lehigh rifles often featured an "Indian head" either on the patchbox or behind the ramrod entry-pipe.

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When were" rifles first made in Allentown and Bucks county areas?
I would point out that its entirely possible Antes was the first to use the indian head. If you want to call it that.
Someone asked about excess brass on rifles. I was trying to explain that the early rifles were carved as a matter of course in many cases.
They were. Don't matter what the school was.

Back to Antes. Look at the toe lines of RCA 53 and 54. Then look at the Allentown and Bucks county toe lines.
Antes was easily capable of being the first to due to toe line and the "indian.
So is the Antes swivel breech could be the trend setter for the two schools for all we know. It has the "indian head", it has the side opening box and the swoopy toe line. Was it made before Antes moved to Philadelphia in 1775? This would make it early or pre-Revwar. Would this make it early enough to make it an early Allentown?


Dan

I live in Bethlehem PA, Northampton County near Allentown which is in Lehigh County. My understanding is that many of the early settlers were "Plain Folk" who shunned fancy things because of religious beliefs and traditions.
"Plain Folk" would want plain guns with little or no embilishments or decorations. I think many plain guns were made but they simply did not survive as they were just tools and not the works of art that later guns were.

Stumpkiller said:

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Still looks like Marge Simpson to me.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

:rotf: