Muzzleloading Forum .....


Contact - Can't Login?
Login Name Post: Speed Loaders        (Topic#214928)
Big Ol Gobbler 
32 Cal.
Posts: 35
Big Ol Gobbler
12-13-07 02:54 PM - Post#500783    


I'm fairly new to traditional muzzleloading, so what do you guys use for a quick second shot? Are the plastic speed loaders taboo? I'd like to get something for the range too, so I don't have to measure out each shot. I'd like to spend more time shootin' and less time putzin'.

 
Roundball 
Cannon
Posts: 22964
Roundball
12-13-07 03:20 PM - Post#500800    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

  • Big Ol Gobbler Said:
I'm fairly new to traditional muzzleloading, so what do you guys use for a quick second shot? Are the plastic speed loaders taboo? I'd like to get something for the range too, so I don't have to measure out each shot. I'd like to spend more time shootin' and less time putzin'.



"BOG", something that has helped my range trips that is free and easy to use, are 35mm film canisters. Stop in at any film developing place and you can get all you want for free.

I sit in my garage and premeasure quantity 50 of each of several different powder charges:
30/40/50/60/70/80/90grns Goex 3F, and 50 of 100grns Goex 2f.

I use large 2.5gal ziploc bags to keep each different charge separate and clearly labeled.
All the ziplocs are then kept in a large plastic storage tub.
When I go to the range and take a .45cal for example, I'll set the tub in the truck even though I'll probably just use the bag of 40grn charges...but all the others are there if I get an idea and want to test something different, etc.

The regimen is I come home, thoroughly clean the flintlock, then refill the bag of 50 empty 35mm canisters I just used so so the tub is full again and ready for next weekend, when I'll probably use a different caliber.
Roundball's ML Formula:
"Whompability...Across The Fields and In The Woods"


 
paulvallandigham 
Passed On
Posts: 17538
paulvallandigham
12-13-07 03:58 PM - Post#500815    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

Sir: The idea of " Speed loading " and muzzle loading shooting do not go together. This is a deliberative shooting sport, where the emphasis is on making the first shot count, because you will not get A SECOND SHOT. The other emphasis is on safety. I can safely reload my rifle in about 20 seconds, but that is only because I have been loading and shooting the gun for more than 25 years! That is probably down from 30 seconds which I took to reload when I first began hunting after learning to shoot and load my gun correctly without looking at it.( by feel).

You can pre-measure powder charges and carry them in individual containers, as RoundBall has described. That cuts down having to measure a charge in the field, and time needed to do so. You can carry a couple of Patched Round Balls, in a ball or bullet block, so that the patch is lubed, and wrapped around the ball, and cut to size. All you have to do then is line a ball up with the muzzle and start it down the barrel with your ramrod. No reaching for a pre-lubed patch, or lubing a strip of patching fabric, and then cutting the patch at the muzzle with a knife. Removing these steps will help you load your gun faster, but you still need to be concerned with safety. A wet patch should be run down the barrel after each shot to put out burning embers in the barrel, and force air out the flash channel to clear it, and the hole in the nipple. If either the nipple is plugged, or the flash channel is blocked, you are not going to be firing a second shot soon. And you really don't want your powder charge being lit when you pour it down the barrel. Not only is the flame a problem to your hands, and face, but the smoke is going to make seeing difficult at best. And, then you still have to get another container of powder to pour down the barrel to load the gun again. And, I suspect, that this time, you will run the damp patch down the barrel to kill the embers before you put that second powder charge down the barrel Time is running away. 15-20 seconds on a reload is pretty fast, all things considered. This is nothing like you expect to occur using a modern cartridge gun, even a single shot rifle.

So, use a ML rifle with the idea that you have only one shot, and NO reloads, and don't worry about a " Speed reload ". Even with a modern gun, not many hunters get a second shot at the same deer, and fewer shooters can actually hit the deer with their second shot.

 
graybeard 
45 Cal.
Posts: 607
12-13-07 04:37 PM - Post#500827    

    In response to paulvallandigham

A very good point to note is that if you can't hit a standing or walking deer with the first shot, what in the world makes you think you can hit him with the second while he is headed for deep cover at top speed? If you want to anchor a deer that is down and trying to get up, carry a muzzleloader pistol. graybeard

 
BrownBear 
Cannon
Posts: 13673
BrownBear
12-13-07 04:50 PM - Post#500832    

    In response to graybeard

All nice theory, but sometimes things don't go right on the first shot. If you happen to wound a deer, I suppose you could go home to turn in your muzzleloading credentials. But by all means a quick reload just might save you a long tracking job if you recover from your shame and decide to finish the job rather than going home.

I messed with various plastic "speed loaders" and still have a few kicking around. But I find that loading blocks discussed elsewhere here on the site are faster for me. You still have to arrange for a quick powder dump, and for that there are period-correct versions made of bone or reed. Till I make up my own someday, I'm perfectly happy making do with 35mm film cannisters to hold a powder charge along with my PRBs in a loading block.

Edited by BrownBear on 12-13-07 04:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Blizzard of 93 
Cannon
Posts: 7207
12-13-07 04:53 PM - Post#500833    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

I use the plastic speed loader 'containers' I put a PRB with a looser fitting patch than normal in the tubes for faster loading and tie a string around the patch to hold it on, press in with my thumb and then rod it down. I've only had to use it once tho, and turned out I could have loaded from a ball block a regular patched ball, I had to track aways. I still shot the deer again from about 50 ft. accuracy is better with the tight-fit PRB's it seems.

 
Big Ol Gobbler 
32 Cal.
Posts: 35
Big Ol Gobbler
12-13-07 05:12 PM - Post#500845    

    In response to paulvallandigham

Thanks for all of the great information. I really enjoy shooting my muzzleloader and that's the problem.... I'd rather spend the time shooting it. I'm not trying to keep pace with a semi-auto. I live in the city and spend 40+ minutes driving to the range, spend the money to shoot for a couple of hours and have to contend with cease fires. If I get off 20 shots during my time there, I'm doing well. I'm just trying to maximize my enjoyment.
I started muzzleloading because it looked like a lot of fun and because I'm forced to make that first shot count but its hard to do that if you cannot practice. Thanks again.

 
trent/OH 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2309
12-13-07 05:50 PM - Post#500855    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

Where do you live? Maybe we can hook you up with a ML club nearby, and at least at club shoots you'd be shooting like everyone else, not having to react to Cease-fire requests all the time.

 
Big Ol Gobbler 
32 Cal.
Posts: 35
Big Ol Gobbler
12-13-07 05:55 PM - Post#500859    

    In response to trent/OH

I live in metro-Milwaukee, WI.

 
smk50 
40 Cal.
Posts: 150
smk50
12-13-07 06:40 PM - Post#500897    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

I use speed loaders more for a reload, rather than a second shot, much more convenient when in a treestand to not have to fiddle with stuff. I have powder charges in hollowed out antler tips with a tight fitting wood plug, and PRB in a bullet block hanging from my neck. Its nice to have second shot just in case. I had one down this year like you threw an anvil on her, 5 min. later she is up and walking off, NOT. Alos to answer the pistol comment from someone, here in NE it isnt legal to carry a pistol while ML hunting(even a BP pistol, we have checked) it is legal,oddly enough to carry a second rifle, though.

 
tg 
Cannon
Posts: 10776
12-13-07 07:17 PM - Post#500909    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

When hunting you would be surprised how fast you can reload out of a bag & horn with practice,if the measure is handy and loose ball and patches in an easy to reach pouch.
The smoke's blown out the vent till there is no more,then a charge of powder I pour, patch&ball go down the bore, shoulder the gun and fire some more


 
Many Klatch 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3239
Many Klatch
12-13-07 07:24 PM - Post#500916    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

I used to live near Madison Wisconsin. I couldn't find anyone in Southern Wisconsin that shot muzzleloader on a regular basis. I wound up driving to Beloit or Rockford to shoot.

Many Klatch

 
edwin Koberle 
32 Cal.
Posts: 29
12-13-07 07:32 PM - Post#500921    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

I use a 20 gage shot shell cut to the length of my powder charge and slip it into a10 gage shell. A nice tight fit,leave the spent primers in and it is pretty waterproof.
ezyed

 
bart 
40 Cal.
Posts: 251
bart
12-13-07 07:37 PM - Post#500926    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

In so far as using speed loaders I use when hunting. I keep six T/C loaders with me (since I have six) and load the rifle from the first, go into the woods with five extras. starter, Nipple pick, nipple wrench tool, caps are in the speed loaders but i bring some extra JIC. And a dry kit .

At the car I keep all my regular kit in the fishing box with extra everything.

At the range practicing it is probably better getting off 20 slow carefull shots than 40 quick ones IMHO. The faster you shoot the more you have to worry about powder going off due to a spark or ember.

I can take 2 minutes and more just looking at the target on a single shot with my spotting scope, mark a target recording my shots and their order and then reload.

Sometimes a few strangers with AR15 rifles will be shooting next to me on the line and it is raining brass. They seem to think they have out shot me by plastering their targets. They take 200 shots and then walk down to check their target. I get off 20 good shots all in the black and they think they have out shot me. I do understand it but.

I use the same patch material .018 and a 535 rb in the speed loader same as I use when practicing. Just before season I try some shots with the loaders just to make sure everything is working the same.

 
mark/wi 
40 Cal.
Posts: 216
12-13-07 07:44 PM - Post#500934    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

Big OL Gobbler, Beloit Rifle Club has a shoot this weekend, 15&16. Range opens at 9am shoot untill 4pm on saturday, 9am-1pm on Sunday. It is a Wisconsin State santioned program. You do not have to be a member to shoot. If you would like to know more let me know. I live in Burlington, shooters do come from Milwaukee. Mark

 
Stumpkiller 
Moderator
Posts: 17113
Stumpkiller
12-13-07 07:45 PM - Post#500935    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

  • Big Ol Gobbler Said:
I'm fairly new to traditional muzzleloading, so what do you guys use for a quick second shot? Are the plastic speed loaders taboo? I'd like to get something for the range too, so I don't have to measure out each shot. I'd like to spend more time shootin' and less time putzin'.



Taboo? No, though they would be at certain events (a Seneca Run, traditional shoot or reenactment, for instance). You are the judge and jury out hunting.

I use a wood ball block and plastic Nalgene tubes with my cap rifles.



With my flinter I carry the horn with a bone measure attached and a block or two in my hunting pouch. My horn strap has a three-hole block tied on with a leather thong and that's more than enough for a hunt without opening the bag.



One of the balls on the horn strap I patch with a 0.010" patch and I can jab that in with two motions right through the ball block for a very fast follow-up. Haven't needed it yet, but it's nice. I lost a huge "dead" buck bowhunting once that collapsed (downward angled spine shot) and ran off as I stood there like an idiot to be lost in a knee-deep hemlock swamp. Only bow shot deer I did not recover. Near killed me trying to find it for days. Since then I reload F.A.S.A.P. if the deer is anything but gone, or just reload before approaching even if it's laying motionless in sight.
"Don't take life too serious - it ain't nohow permanent."


 
Rat Trapper 
62 Cal.
Posts: 2620
Rat Trapper
12-13-07 08:48 PM - Post#500982    

    In response to Stumpkiller

For hunting I like TC's 4-N-1 quick shots. They have a built in short starter and seal up the powder very well plus have a place for your pan powder or cap. When going to the range I'm with Roundball I measure out my loads in put them any of a number of things. What I like best is a bunch of American Pioneer premeasured powder tubes a guy at the range gave me. They hold up to 100 grains and can be used over and over, plus you can see through them to see if they are empty.
I also have a bunch of the film canisters which I also use once in a while. I wish someone would offer American Pioneers plastic tubes (with out the powder) for sale in 50 or 100 packs. they really are handy and do not take up much space. Other companies offer plastic tubes but are not as good.

 
Big Ol Gobbler 
32 Cal.
Posts: 35
Big Ol Gobbler
12-14-07 04:15 PM - Post#501341    

    In response to mark/wi

Thanks Mark. This weekend already has me busy. I don't think I'd be able to get away. Thanks though.

 
wirewiz 
32 Cal.
Posts: 35
wirewiz
12-16-07 04:48 PM - Post#502352    

    In response to Big Ol Gobbler

Paul V pointed out that this is a one accurate shot hobby. A fast second shot is more of having things convenient to reload the same as the first.
I’ve used this setup in the pics for the range and field for at least 40 years; since I first discovered that the caps from disposable one-use needles have a nice snug fit on fired 30 cal. cases.




All my loads are put together at home before the range or the field. Each of mine is weighed, but you can pour from your measure if you want, I just want to eliminate as many variables as possible.
The block has various sized holes for 30 cal. cases from 308 to the belted mags for heavy charges and shallow holes for the various sized balls, the one in the pic goes from 32 to 54, laid out in a 5-shot format. I think this has kept me from dry-balling a time or two when the insults start going up and down the loading benches.
The two eye-screws hold the two range rods, one with a cleaning jag in the ramrod to seat the ball. The butt-plate rests on a piece of plywood that has some rolled up carpet to protect the brass.




The five-shot format works well when you are shooting matches, working up accuracy loads, or just trying out all the crazy patch lubes recommended on this forum, in other words, having a hell of a lot of fun.
The loads that I take to the range are put in a large reloader box, found at most gun shows, and marked with a felt-tipped pen. An alcohol swab erases the charge notations when you change.
For the field, I have my appropriate cases and my RB in a larger than normal lubed patch, closed with a rubber band, and cut the patch at the muzzle. I’ve never had to reload really fast. This is a one accurate shot in the proper place game. The only time I reload a lot is in squirrel hunting and I always clean after every shot just like on the range. The second squirrel deserves just as much consideration as the first.
I’ve just recently made a couple of loading blocks, one for the 32 and one for the 54. A lot of guys on this forum swear by them and so I’m going to give them a try.
If you would like to try this method, take a Tupperware container to your dental office and ask them to save you a supply of needle caps. The other half of a needle cartridge that holds a needle tight is disposed with the needle in a special container according to state and local regulations. By the way, if in this day and age your dental office does not use one-time disposable needles, CHANGE YOUR OFFICE IMMEDIATELY!

Sincerely,
Wirewiz


 
Big Ol Gobbler 
32 Cal.
Posts: 35
Big Ol Gobbler
12-17-07 09:23 PM - Post#503071    

    In response to wirewiz

Thanks again for all of the great info. I appreciate it

 
wirehairman 
40 Cal.
Posts: 257
wirehairman
12-18-07 04:40 PM - Post#503543    

    In response to Rat Trapper

  • Rat Trapper Said:
I wish someone would offer American Pioneers plastic tubes (with out the powder) for sale in 50 or 100 packs.



I e-mailed American Pioneer a while ago asking the same thing, and they won't sell the empty tubes. Guess they weren't impressed that I wanted them to put real black in them.

 
Roundball 
Cannon
Posts: 22964
Roundball
12-18-07 09:05 PM - Post#503663    

    In response to wirehairman

Here's a possible alternative for powder...I bought this 100 pack off EBay for only a few bucks...this size holds over 100grns of powder.

They are in fact glass but with extremely thick walls plus get strength from their small size and geometric shape...drop them on the floor and they don't break (unless they're heavy and full of liquid)

Roundball's ML Formula:
"Whompability...Across The Fields and In The Woods"


 
Rat Trapper 
62 Cal.
Posts: 2620
Rat Trapper
12-22-07 03:13 PM - Post#505686    

    In response to wirehairman

Ya I know they won't sell them. I called them couple times hoping to find someone who would help me out. Next best thing is to talk someone with an in-line into buying some American Pioneer premeasured powder and give you the left over tubes.

 
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Print Topic


3164 Views
Welcome Guest...
Enter your Login Name and password to login. If you do not have a username you can register one here

Login Name

Password

Remember me. Help



Login Not Working?...

Registered Members
Total: 31537
Todays
Birthdays
11-19Darkhorse
11-19Eddie Southgate
11-19Raedwald
11-19Old Mikey B
11-19hobowonkanobe
11-19mmutarelli
Current Quote
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
~ Sir Winston Churchill

PRIVACY POLICY
FusionBB™ Version 3.0 FINAL | ©2003-2010 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.221 seconds.   Total Queries: 86  
All times are (GMT-6.0). Current time is 08:24 PM
Top