Goex to stop making Cartridge BP

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.. jan 19 / 23:00


sulpher xx%
charcoal xx%
saltpeter xx%

start practicing now.

~d~

Just got my new Muzzle Blasts, and there's an ad on page 34 by Goex introducing their new Reenactor Gunpowder. "..dedicated to the historical reenactor and the value conscious black powder recreational shooter".
"Goex's new Reenactor Gunpowder loads the same by volume charge as regular black powder. This new powder is ideal for blank fire in muskets, carbines, pistols and cannons. Also suitable for recreational round ball muzzleloaders, where it performs nicely at low pressures and lessens wear on vintage and modern reproduction firearms." "100% black powder", "value priced", available "everywhere spring 2011."

I see on page 34 of my new February 2011 "Muzzle Blasts" magazine that GOEX, on November 18,2010 announced that they will be making a new "Reenactor Gunpowder".

The article says, "...This new powder is dedicated to the historical reenactor and the value conscious black powder recreational shooter."

It goes on to say, "...load tthe same by volume charge as regular grade black powder. This new powder is ideal for blank fore in muskets, carbines, pistols and cannons. Also suitable for recreational round ball muzzleloaders, where it performs nicely at low pressures and lessens wear on vintage and modern reproduction firearms. With its 100 percent black powder ignition, if is reliable with every shot.
Reenactor gunpowder is value priced for every budget minded shooter pursuing living history..."

Doesn't sound like a company that's thinking about going out of business to me.

Mike: You posted while I was writing.

Zonie---Seems like you missed the point! For serious sporting muzzleloader shooters and match shooters and BPCR reenactor BP is worthless. If you just want to make smoke and noise it will work fine. Hogdon's/Goex is out of touch with with the BP shooting public.

While I do civl war reenacting, I have heard of guys who used the stuff (reenactor powder).
:: It's dirtier, fouls quicker and looks like floor sweepings, and doesn't give as big a bang when firing.:::
I have never used it. It's the same as CCI reenactor caps. I hear people have trouble with those also. They won't fire off a sharps, and have more misfires than "regular" caps. Made for the reenactor community. So they don't blow off a flang. CCI's tophat caps are 6 flanged and not 4 like the "historical" ones.

I just don't trust anything in Blackpowder either powder or caps that has a NEW and Improved label.

No, I don't think I missed the point.
The original post was about GOEX shutting down the Cartridge Powder line.
Following this there seemed to be some speculation that GOEX was going out of business or they were going to quite making black powder etc. so, it seemed to me that folks would be interested in that fact that GOEX was introducing a new black powder line.
Companies who are planning on going out of business don't usually start marketing new product lines.

I also thought that some of our members might ask some gun shop if they sell real black powder and the owner might tell them, "Sure I do. I've got a whole bunch of Reenactor Powder out back."

It is always nice to know what the owner is offering. Hopefully, after reading this Topic they will know that "Reenactor Powder" is weaker than regular black powder.

Depending on what they want to do, it may be just the ticket for their purpose. On the other hand, it may not be worth a darn for what they want to do.

blackhorn209 gents, blackhorn209 :2

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.. jan 22 / 01:30

kentuckywindage,

sorry, i don't understand your point.. could you elaborate ?

thanks,

:thumbsup: ~daniel~

.
.. jan 22 / 01:35


zonie,

good point but i fear that their long range strategy *probably is* to phase out real black.. i have no proof, just a gut feeling that we are being manipulated into a space that is not in out best interests as Dan Phariss points out:

The profit is in the military powder. The military is less picky about the powder for one thing and since Goex is the only supplier in the US....

This was foreseen by a friend when the sale finalized. He predicted in a year or 2 BP production for shooters would be cut back or stopped all together.

The sporting blackpowder barely pays its way.

Hodgdon making a black powder that competes with Pyrodex is a conflict of interest. They have a vested interest in NOT making BP since its profit margin is far lower than P-dex.
BP making is more labor intensive for one thing.

This is not good news...

Click to expand...

another point that makes it all the more obvious is your comment

Companies who are planning on going out of business don't usually start marketing new product lines.

Click to expand...

true, but they do often "consolidate" capital equipment and labor to, you guessed it, save production costs.. and it's usually the low hanging fruit that goes first.

just look at the mess we have for an automobile industry... where is it ?

guaranteed, a takeover means one of two things: sell the parts and eliminate the competition or "cut the fat" - downsize, layoff, relocate, etc. etc... that's all they teach in business schools these days.. the customer comes last; profits come first.

one question i do have is what do you mean by "With its 100 percent black powder ignition, it is reliable with every shot." ?

is this stuff "real" or some mixture of pyro and real ?

:idunno: i'm confused,

~d~

First of all, you make a very good point by using 'our' auto industry as an example. Unfortunately, it wasn't the point you were trying for. The US auto industry indeed made a mess of things and very nearly went out of business. But they have come along way back. You ask, "Where is it?" - the answer is it's in good shape and getting better every day, back to making money and more cars. The proof is in the sales and earnings data.

Dan Phariss is well respected in our community; his knowledge and experience are valuable and highly regarded. But I see no credentials that make him, or the friend he references, a seer with respect to the business of black powder production and sales. His friend's prediction is hardly validated by Hodgdon/Goex closing down one product line while introducing another. Dozens of products are canceled and new ones introduced every year; it's a normal part of the business cycle. Further, there's no data supporting the claim that "sporting black powder barely pays its way" or that the profit margin in real black powder is "far lower than P-dex." Dan may well be right, but he presents nothing to support his assertions, so I have to discount their value as facts; they're simply opinions, which he has a right to express, and I have a right to disagree with.

You obviously have not been to business school lately. They do teach improving bottom line performance by cost reduction, but there's much more emphasis on learning what your market needs and wants and figuring out away to get it to them. No business that puts it's customer last survives - your example of the US auto industry is one very good example. I can't be to critical of your attitude toward business these days as the only press we get (how can anyone believe anything they get from today's media?) is negative, but there are far more examples of M&A activity being positive for both companies than 'destroying' the acquired company. You just don't hear about them. I can't say it doesn't happen, but its certainly not the norm.

I'm not saying Hodgdon is any kind of a saint, or even that Goex will never stop making black powder. I'm just saying that I have not yet seen evidence that the dire predictions of the imminent demise of Goex, or black powder sports in general, are even remotely accurate.

Kentuckywindage said:

blackhorn209 gents, blackhorn209 :2

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Too expensive!

Kentuckywindage said:

blackhorn209 gents, blackhorn209 :2

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You have two cents left after buying that stuff?

$4 more than goex and much easier to find.

our Hawken loves the stuff.

Kentuckywindage said:

$4 more than goex and much easier to find.

our Hawken loves the stuff.

Click to expand...

Huh?

Goex is $15 lb.
Bh is $30 lb

$20 for goex the last time i checked by the "local" seller + 2 hour hour drive one way.

$24.99 per can if you buy a case of 10 cans for BH209.

You can't take your situation as the norm.

Average price for BH is $30 and as high as $40, and it's only a 10 oz bottle.

Average price for Goex is $15.

I won't even mention the difference in price for a PRB and what you use with that BH. :wink:

Just a question has anyone tried using pyrodex pistol powder? it looks to be about the same but Im probably wrong.

I guess it's fine that Goex is doing away with some powder. Considering that as of monday last EuroArms of America closed it's doors. sold off all in house parts and stock. I guess we don't need powder after all. ( I seen this and has been confirmed on 3 different forums.) Rumor has that ArmiSport is also going to be gone. :idunno:

odd fellow said:

Just a question has anyone tried using pyrodex pistol powder? it looks to be about the same but Im probably wrong.

Click to expand...

Pyrodex P is 3F powder, and acts like it. The RS is 2F.

Will a regular #11 cap ignite 209?
I thought the 209 meant it had to be set off with a 209 primer.