New Lehigh build getting started

I just ordered a barrel from FCI barrels. A 38 caliber A-weight swamped barrel, 48 inches long. The use for the gun would be to put holes in paper, and to make my friends at the range drool when they see it. Mostly, it's about hugging it.

What I'm struggling with, is what school to do it in. I really like the John Moll guns, but those seem like they're for heavier calibers. Peter Neidhart and Nicholas Hawk guns are attractive too, as are John Young guns. What I want in this build, is for it to be long, thin, and elegant. I also really like to do raised carving, and want to do the fanciest engraving I am capable of. I would like to have a little bit of a "hook" on the toe plate too, which will help with offhand.

Since I'm going that far out there, I'll order some kind of really nice wood, probably from Freddie Harrison in the $500-$600 range. I figure if I'm going this far, (barrel lead time is 8 months, and Dave Keck takes another 4 months to do the inletting or butt profile carving) why not go the whole way. Anticipated time to build will probably be 2-3 years, and about 300-400 hours.

My first Lehigh was a Stophill Long profile (Rice B-weight 50 cal, CM-5 wood and profiling from Dave Keck, (this was my Lehiigh learning gun) with the aforementioned carving and engraving reminiscent of John Moll. Any thoughts on styles or schools to research and follow would be appreciated.

Col. I can give you a little information on Nicholas Hawk. Hawk had his shop in the town of Gilbert in what is today Monroe County. At the time he worked it part of Northampton County.

Hawk was a master metal worker and engraver, besides guns he also made clocks. The local story about him is that he so good at engraving that he made plates for printing money and spent some time in jail for this.

The Hawk rifles I have seen all had a brass comb plate running from the butt plate to the nose of the comb. The two single barrel rifles had brass plates on the bottom of the forearm running from the rear of the entry pipe to the front of the trigger guard. Again all this metal engraved. The swivel breech Hawk rifles I have seen did not have wood forearms, the forearms where hammered from brass and fitted around the locks. Even the ramrod grove was hammered into the brass.

The one thing all the Hawk rifles I have seen in photos and in person have in common is the lack of carving.

Nicholas Hawk's gun shop was moved from the Hawk Farm in Gilbert to the grounds of the Henry Gunworks at Bulton, PA. If you go to web site Jacobsburg Historical Society site you can get more information on his shop and their museum of the Pennsylvania Longrifle.

Pardon my incredulity, but what could possibly make a maple stock blank to be valued at $500 + ?

all birdseyes? :hmm:

Ask Freddy. Some Walnut blanks sell for upwards of $2000, maybe even more. Dave Keck said he has one that he wouldn't let go for less than $1500, but he says it's more suited to building a fine cello than to sacrifice on a gun.

I guess the question really is; with that barrel and caliber choice, are my other choices in a Lehigh regarding style and school pretty much limited? If so, what are they?

That barrel would work fine in a Lehigh gun (the breech might be a tad small, but doable).

Lehigh guns are different. They are weird. In every way. Particularly of the classic Moll/Rupp/Neihardt variety. They require talent, skill, experience, and LOTS of study. VERY FEW people today build Lehigh rifles that actually look like real Lehigh rifles. They are tough, and probably impossible to properly copy from the lousy photos in the picture books. I would say the situation is almost the same for many types of Berks county guns.

Stophel said:

That barrel would work fine in a Lehigh gun (the breech might be a tad small, but doable).

Lehigh guns are different. They are weird. In every way. Particularly of the classic Moll/Rupp/Neihardt variety. They require talent, skill, experience, and LOTS of study. VERY FEW people today build Lehigh rifles that actually look like real Lehigh rifles. They are tough, and probably impossible to properly copy from the lousy photos in the picture books. I would say the situation is almost the same for many types of Berks county guns.

Click to expand...

If they are so tough to make properly it makes you wonder how Moll, Rupp, Neihardt made them from the start? :hmm: Did they wake up one night and say " I think I'll make a rifle with this Profile? (Favorite smilie here).

They did it by apprenticing for at least 7 years, and working as journeymen building rifles before opening their own shops. Learning by doing and hands-on studying the guns their masters made. It is a style that evolved over the years and you can "watch" the change by looking at Bethlehem/Christians' Springs guns and moving forward from there.

There's just a lot of details (virtually everything) on Lehigh guns that simply do not follow the convention of the more familiar straightforward Lancaster guns. Lock position, wrist shaping, fore end shaping, the shaping of the stock around the breech tang... everything.

Not my cup o tea rifle, but I thought it cool the rifle 'Hawkeye' in the new movie 'Last of the Mohicans' was a 'hockey stick' ....I wonder who made the rifles for that movie? And I understand ol House brothers mad the rifles for the main actors in 'The Patriot' movie :bow:
I bet ol Mel Gibson kept THAT rifle!

Those rifles are nice, a great challenge for you to put a LONG barrel on it!.....I would like to see that package from Dave when he mails it to you :rotf:
It will stick out of the mail carriers car window!!!
Keep us in the loop!
Marc

Allen Martin builds some nice Lehighs. You might want to look at some of his work.

Allen Martin Rifles

Keith Lisle

Allen Martin and Eric Kettenburg are THE two main experts that I know of for recreating Lehigh rifles. Exemplary gunsmiths.

Col. Batguano said:

Ask Freddy. Some Walnut blanks sell for upwards of $2000, maybe even more. Dave Keck said he has one that he wouldn't let go for less than $1500, but he says it's more suited to building a fine cello than to sacrifice on a gun.

I guess the question really is; with that barrel and caliber choice, are my other choices in a Lehigh regarding style and school pretty much limited? If so, what are they?

Click to expand...

It would take a seance to ask Freddy Haarison any question.

Not sure why you would think that the barrel and caliber limits your choices of which Lehigh builders to emulate. I agree that early versus late would influence your choices. Can you explain why you think a particular barrel and caliber make a difference in what Lehigh buttstock profile you would use?

I would add young Eric Von Achewege to the list:
http://www.neahkahnieflintlocks.com/

Eric has done a lot of study on the Lehigh style over the past several years and has had input from people like Allen Martin. Eric was at Lewisburg this year with several nicely done guns.

Well, generally, pre-Federal period guns tended to be larger caliber, and more robust dimensions. Usually 45" or shorter too. I'm picking a caliber and length that is longer, and more slender. I'm thinking that would more historically lend itself to around 1810 or so, when smaller calibers were more common, and most of the larger game was gone. It's also when raised carving was much less common too.

I wouldn't be opposed to doing a Berks County design either. But after just doing a Lehigh, I'd feel better about applying most of the dimensional lessons I learned (meaning mistakes) from the first gun to another one of a similar style. Before that one my only other guns had been from pre-carved Track Kits. There's a big difference. in what A Dave Keck Lehigh parts set has, and what a Track parts set has.

I'm with ya now. There are so many different Lehigh builders you could emulate in the period you're talking about. In my mind I would split them roughly into "folksy" and "fancy" to figure which way to go. There are some great Berks County makers of that period as well. If you're willing to get into Womelsdorf, etc, Bonewitz comes to mind as a master of low rlief carving that was "fancy" but the stock profile is far from any Lehigh influences. Mauger on the other hand was more folksy and has a lot of appeal for me. If you shoot me a PM I can share whatever old Muzzle Blasts articles on Lehigh rifles of the1800-1820 period, guns that are not in rifles of Colonial America or Kindig's Golden Age book. Of course Eric Kettenberg should be a great resource to get you inspired as he's done so many of the folksy type of rifles, though most of his work is of an earlier style.