Herman Rupp 1793 Build

[Sean E Bug]

that is outstanding work. a lot better than my first one. heck even the last one I did. I look forward to you posting pictures of your next project.

 

[54ball]

My attempt of the 1793 Herman Rupp is finally complete. It’s been a heck of a learning process. 3 ½ years… Even with a long pause, the hours are uncountable. 1,000 build photos on my camera, so hate to even imagine! This was my learner, my basic future template, and a real build. I especially want to thank Bill Raby. Your videos taught me how to turn a board into something I can shoot! To all of you that similarly share knowledge, wherever and however, thank you. Videos freely shared by Wayne E., Mike B., Jim K., Grumpy Gunsmith, M. Yazel, et al., helped me a ton, thank you. The Rupp specific information shared by D. Taylor Sapergia on ALR forum really helped when I needed that extra spec. or photo angle. Various Lehigh Valley / Allentown-Bethlehem school rifle build photos by Tim Williams, Marvin Kemper, and Allen Martin also really helped and inspired. Thank you Terry Jo and Ryan of M.B.S.!

This is my first longrifle, save for a kit I rushed. So, it’s naturally going to have issues and that’s obviously no fault of anyone mentioned. I’ve yet to behold an original but that should change, having joined the NMLRA! Look forward to taking part in some events and especially in some classes with like-minded folks. I’ll be building from here on out, just love it.

I wanted to get some outdoor photos but will have to save that for better weather. All critiques and feedback on this rifle are appreciated.

The 1793 H. Rupp was 63.5” w/ 47.5” octagon straight barrel. His 1809 was 58 7/8” w 42.5” octagon swamped.

Specs.
Overall Length: 59”
Overall Weight: 8 1/2 lbs
Barrel: Colerain Swamped .45 Caliber / B Weight / 42” Length
Barrel Weight: Heavy!
L.O.P.: 13 3/4”
Drop @ Comb (Measured @ Point of the Nose): 1 1/4”
Drop @ Tip of Star: 1 3/8”
Drop @ Heel (Measured @ Rear-most Point of Buttplate): 3 1/4”
Drop @ Toe: 8”
Cast-off (@ Heel): 1/2”
Toe Heel: Yes, I believe it’s about 1/4”
Buttplate Width: 1 5/8”
Buttplate Height (Heel to Toe): 4 ¾”
Balance Point: Slightly forward of rear sight
Board: Red Maple (Dense / Figured) from Tiger Hunt (Mr. Barton, thank you)
Lock: Chambers Gunmakers Lock
View attachment 293961View attachment 293962View attachment 293963View attachment 293964View attachment 293965View attachment 293966

First off let me say it’s a wonderful rifle from a very difficult school!!!!!!!!

These are hard to pull off and it’s a great rifle.

I don’t often critique but you deserve it.
We don’t learn from attaboys.....
Since you are serious, here we go.

Here are problems you need to correct on the next rifle.

1. Shaping with sandpaper.
This is evident in the buttstock especially the toe area. The toe moulding, toe plate area and under the patch box should be crisp. Instead it’s rounded off a little and the sharpness is not there that should be there.
I suspect a lot of shaping with sand paper.
Remedy....
Use rasps, files, scrapers and if you use sandpaper make sure it’s backed.
You need to work on keeping the areas crisp that need to be crisp.

2. Lower Forestock, Belly around the triggerguard and some of the wrist are still flat or in the square........

This is a very difficult area.
The belly of the forestock should be rounded.
The roundness of the belly of the forestock will meet or intersect with the roundness of the nose of the lock and side plate panels.
These rounded areas meet here like a cross in front of the trigger guard.

The little rifle above is not the greatest but I hope you can see how the round belly of the forestock meets and meshes with the lock and side panels. There’s a lot going on here but it’s subtle.
Notice there’s no flat wood in front of the triggerguard.
Notice also there is no large flat area surrounding the triggerguard.
This is a challenging area and most new builders will leave this area flat.
There are flats here but they go from the trigger plate/ triggerguard to the bottom of the the lock and side panel.
This area is discussed in depth Recreating the American Longrifle and Grenville County.

3. Decoration
It’s wonderful. It works but......there are some issues.
Your inscised work is absolutely wonderful but your reliefs gouged in are a little rough and heavy handed.
I really suspect a dull gouge. A dull tool will not cut as fine and may dig when you don’t want it too.
Cudos for you for choosing a complex design that matches the school of the rifle.
It all works and it’s pleasing. I really like the decoration.
Be honest with yourself. How good would it look if all you had were the relief carvings?
You need to fine tune that relief carving. Again, I think sharpness of tool has a lot to do with it.
This is a great example for a new carver. A complex design can work much better than a simple design. The more complex, the more mistakes you can get away with.
All in all the overall carving is greater than the sum of it’s parts. You’ll see this on originals. Sometimes individual elements may be a little crude but as a whole it works.
It works and it’s impressive.
Just get better.

If you don’t have a good pattern makers rasp get one.

Well Done!!!!
I look forward to seeing more!

 

[JL]

#1 I believe much of what you’re seeing is the result of my repeated molding line attempts. The darn things perplexed me for a while and I would sand the failed attempts. This was the learning area. Ultimately, some of this negatively impacted the toe plate area. The toe plate will also be better on the next one.

#2 Your comments and photos on this are much appreciated. I can finally see it… finally. Bill R. had called this out on an earlier build photo, too. The reference photos really make it all appear pretty flat, but having your knowledge and Bill’s, it’s there to see. For starters, my “Liberty Head” should have had more curvature. Yes, without that flat around the triggerguard I’d of had more wood to round to the lock/panel. Thank you, this really helps.

#3 You’re right, I don’t know what some of those gouge cuts were all about. I feel like I was as meticulous as possible w/ the v-tool incised lines but rushed some of the accent stabs and relief. I did the same thing on the subtle toe plate engraving, just some rushed and sloppier plunge cuts within the pedals. I agree that the overall carving does work, but that’s probably more so because of Mr. Rupp than my skill. One of my family members said “I had to carve it or I’d never learn.” Started w/ the stabbing gouge method and that wasn’t for me…

Thank you for taking the time to help a new builder. I can’t wait to get going on the next one. It should be a dandy now that I’ve been able to identify my weak points and do a full build. Probably going to do something w/ less brass and silver. Ohhhh, I almost forgot… I picked up two French rasps along the way. One of them is by far, my favorite tool to use!

 

[billraby]

All this stuff takes practice. It gets better every time. The important part is being able to recognize what you need to improve.

 

[PhDBrewer]

Great job!
As I am currently building my first also, these subtle "features" are not immediately apparent. You learned much in the process and put it all to use in this one. You next one will reflect that.
An artist knows all the mistakes in the art they created. However, they are seldom seen by the general public.
Keep that "juice" glass 2 fingers deep as you celebrate!
Thank you for sharing.

William

 

[ZUG]

Beautifully done! I like everything about this rifle!!!! You sir are a master of patience to have stuck with this for that long and come out with a gem.

 

[JL]

Gosh darn it, I can't help but to keep staring at that trigger guard to lock area/transition area. I had taken another close look at a Lehigh Martin example after Bill's comment (prior to completion/seperate thread) and obviously ALL the Rupp references. Tonight, I feel like I was more closer to being on than off. You can at least see there's some curvature in my inlay. .54, does this angle make it appear any better?

 

[morehops52]

WoW! What a great rifle ! Others have commended you on the build. Let me compliment you on your photography too.

 

[godutch]

WoW! What a great rifle ! Others have commended you on the build. Let me compliment you on your photography too.

 

[Colonial Boy]

Let me first complement you on your dedication, perseverance and patience; great job and a beautiful result.

 

[godutch]

Let me first complement you on your dedication, perseverance and patience; great job and a beautiful result.

Yes. 'What he said.