Wow...wrinkled AND frosty balls...

[noahmercy]

:shocked2: What a combo! I just cast my first batch of .535" roundballs and got some funky results. I'm using a Lee double cavity mold and a bottom-pour furnace and most of the balls are coming out with a wrinkle on one side (near 90 degrees to the parting line most time) and a frosted quadrant near the sprue with a little dimple. I've hand-cast probably in excess of 75,000 bullets for cartridges and frequently use Lee molds, and I've never seen this happen before. I thoroughly degreased the mold and sooted the cavities. I tried pre-heating the mold blocks and casting at a variety of temps from 650 degrees to 800 degrees with identical results. I rested the blocks on a damp towel after every few throws to prevent them from getting too hot...same thing. I tried pouring directly down the sprue hole, pouring on the edge (so it swirled into the cavity), and placing the holes directly against the spout a la the way one would do with a ladle. No dice. The wrinkles are not consistently in the same place, so they're not being caused by oil or grease. Also, I did initially cast quite a few to get the mold "broken in"...in my experience the first few dozen throws from new Lees are of poor quality regardless of bullet design.

The balls were quite consistent, with most throwing within a one grain tolerance, despite their poor appearance and slight deformity. The diameter is also consistent, albeit a little bigger than advertised (.547").

Any ideas? I'm not a neophyte at casting, but spherical projectiles are new territory for me, so I'd sure appreciate any input from those of you experienced with RB casting. I know a Lyman, RCBS, or Saeco mold is higher quality and would likely eliminate these problems, but I'm one of those tinkerers who likes to try to make something he already has work before giving up on it.

:thumbsup:

 

[jtmattison]

I've never had a problem with my Lee molds.
I wash them with hot water and dish soap when I get a new one. I smoke the cavities with stick matches every once in a while.
The only time my balls are wrinkled :shake: is when the lead or mold are not hot enough. I pre-heat my molds on an old electric cook burner and I keep my lead pot set on high.
My balls come out frosted :shake: when the weather is warm but nice and shiney when it is cold in the garage.
I've never weighed them but they shoot great all of the time.
All I can say is maybe try scrubbing the mold blocks again with hot soapy water and try again.

Huntin Dawg

 

[Bill Bryan]

I've had similar problems with a bottom pouring melting pot. It occured when I changed from linotype lead to pure soft lead. The soft lead doesn't flow as well. After experimenting with hand laddling I got good looking bullets. I get the mould good and hot and then leave a good puddle of lead on to of the mould to act as a heat sink that will slow the cooling process.

 

[riarcher]

First thing I'd guess wouldbe the mold is too cool (wrinkled) or filling too slowly (but I'd guess not with frosty balls)and the lead too hot (frosty).
Lot's of folks like the aluminum blocks and work well for them. Personally, I prefer the steel blocks. Takes a bit to heat the steel, but they seem to be able to maintain a more even temp. once they heat up.
I've had simular troubles with the Lees. Once I got them up to temp, I had to pace myself more carefully to maintain the temp.
I've found frosted balls workable, but when they wrinkle that's a "back in the pot" indicator for me and mine.

 

[Keppy]

I use a Lee bottom dump and have an asortment of molds. Saco , RCBS and Lee. All mold very good. I use a candle too soot up all my mold. The Saco and RCBS are steel and take some time to get hot, but once they get up to the right temp they mold good and fast. The Lee also does a great job but you have to watch not to get it to hot. I try to take it slow with the Lee mold. I have a thermomter and 650 to 750 seems to do well as far as pot temp. As for the wrinkles, as someone else said not hot enough. Make sure you have a good spruce at the top. Watch it and you can see it suck the spruce down as it cools. If thats happening I don't what can be happening without being there. Good luck

 

[2172]

I just had a similar experience..I've been casting long enough to know what i'm doing, but I did a batch of .49 in a double Lyman mold and got wrinkled, kinda dimpled (as if there had been fine grains of something in the cavity)...I threw the first 20 or so back in the pot, even thougH I had pre-heated the mold...never cured it..I've got 50 that are so ugly I am only using 'em for practice in my back yard. Here's what I think happened, and would like comments: taking advantage of almost-Springlike weather, I set up on the patio on a picnic bench...even though it was mild, there was a pretty good continuing wind...more than a breeze. Maybe this chilled the dipper I used between the pot and the mold? Second, I usually perch my mold on top of the lead pot while the lead is melting to heat it, and I do it with the cavity open...this batch of lead needed more fluxing than usual, and got it while the mold was so perched...I'm wondering if the flux fumes greased the mold...maybe carried some minute foreign material into the cavity? I am going to thorough wash that mold before I use it again...what are your thoughts? Hank

 

[bwhoffman]

I can relate with your dilema!
I have cast for everything I have shot (handguns, bpcr, lever guns and some cf)
I have done this on the "cheap" using only lee moulds and have had terrific results.
There are a few steps that are learned over time...
1. do not rush to cast, allow the alloy to come up to temp. I typically will run some lead thru the furnace and make an ingot. This clears the spout.
2. clean the spout, grud likes this spot and slows the flow causing a slow fill....=wrinkled balls.
3. stir your material and skim off the grud. this not only removes junk but more evenly distibutes the heat.
4. preheat the mold, cast about 10 fills and recycle these for later. This heats the mold.
5. keep it clean
6. develope a cycle, method, routine.... where everything happens in a set order. This is yout timing and gives pretty much the same result every time.
7. a lot of wheelweight material will cast frosty balls/bullets. it is the nature of the alloy
8. lastly and most common sense-ly....ask yourself this question when looking at your finished goods...."If this were in a box, in a store and "I" had to pay for these, would I?"
...if the answer is no, put it back in the pot!

Brett sr

 

[noahmercy]

Thanks for all the replies, fellers! :hatsoff:

I think I'm going to have to go back and clean the blocks again to begin with...I'm going to immerse them in boiling water for five minutes or so this time. Then I'll use denatured alcohol to finish. If that doesn't clean them down to bare metal, I don't know what will. (I will, of course, ensure that there is no liquid left on the mold or handles before I even take it into the same room as my casting pot.)

I'm using pure lead, which may be part of the problem. I'm used to alloys from 1:20 up to linotype (all of which have tin, which helps fill out the casting). I may just be pouring too fast for the material I'm using. I'm going to try slowing down the pour and see if that helps.

I do leave a generous puddle on the top of the mold, so there is plenty of lead for the mold to draw on as it cools. (CitadelBill and Hacksaw bring up a good point about that...I've seen a lot of bullets cast by others that have dimpled bases from not following this procedure.)

I'm sure I haven't been overheating the blocks, and I'm equally sure I haven't been running them too cold. I'll use my infrared gun to measure it today and see if there are any "hot spots" that might be causing the frosted quadrant. A thought that occured to me last night was that it might be occuring near one of the steel parts (which would stay much hotter than the aluminum around it).

I think that's the only way the balls can come out frosty (which generally infers excessive heat) and wrinkled (generally points to inadequate heat) at the same time.

Once again, thanks for y'all's input. If anything else occurs to anyone, please feel free to add your thoughts.

:thumbsup:

 

[mike alexandre]

Sounds like either your lead/or mould isnt hot enough or you not cleaning/fluxing your lead properly.