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Where to Buy Conical Bullets
- Thread starter starman
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I'd check with Track of the Wolf. They have a big selection of conicals in a wide array of calibers.
rodwha
58 Cal.
ccmountainman casts a couple of .44 cal conicals. Send him a PM.
rodwha
58 Cal.
Certainly not.
I'd like for you to show me that it was my bullet design that made his ASM Walker cylinder, a company known to have quality issues, let go since you know so much about these guns and their loads.
And I certainly didn't give him any load recommendations, nor did I tell him to use it in that gun. He had been following my threads about the designs, which stated it was meant to be used in a ROA. I should have reiterated that.
I'd like for you to show me that it was my bullet design that made his ASM Walker cylinder, a company known to have quality issues, let go since you know so much about these guns and their loads.
And I certainly didn't give him any load recommendations, nor did I tell him to use it in that gun. He had been following my threads about the designs, which stated it was meant to be used in a ROA. I should have reiterated that.
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I would consider casting your own. A mold can pay for it's self in one range session. I'm still shooting conicals I made in the 1980's
Your pistol will most likely use #10 percussion caps. The more common #11 caps are often a bit loose on the nipples.
The one thing you really don't want to happen is for one of the caps to fall off of the nipples on the rear of the cylinder.
If that happens, a chain fire where more than one chamber goes off might happen.
Finding a bullet mold that will cast the type of bullet you need will be difficult.
The correct bullet will be somewhere between a .451 and .453 diameter. It will also have a "heel" at the rear which is around .446-.450 in diameter.
The purpose of the heel is to align the bullet with the chamber before it is rammed in.
Without this heel, getting a bullet aligned with the chamber so it will not be offset before it is rammed will be very difficult.
Your best bet is to do what almost all shooters of these revolvers do. They use a lead roundball.
If you go this route, buy some .453 diameter balls.
Those, over a powder charge of 25-30 grains of powder for a steel framed gun, or 18-22 grains of powder for a brass framed gun will work fine.
Oh, by the way. You didn't say if your pistol has a brass frame. Not the trigger guard and backstrap which are always brass.
If the pistol has a brass frame, forget the bullets.
The force needed to load them with the loading lever, the recoil of the cylinder when the gun fires and just the pressure of driving a elongated bullet thru the barrel can damage the brass framed guns.
The one thing you really don't want to happen is for one of the caps to fall off of the nipples on the rear of the cylinder.
If that happens, a chain fire where more than one chamber goes off might happen.
Finding a bullet mold that will cast the type of bullet you need will be difficult.
The correct bullet will be somewhere between a .451 and .453 diameter. It will also have a "heel" at the rear which is around .446-.450 in diameter.
The purpose of the heel is to align the bullet with the chamber before it is rammed in.
Without this heel, getting a bullet aligned with the chamber so it will not be offset before it is rammed will be very difficult.
Your best bet is to do what almost all shooters of these revolvers do. They use a lead roundball.
If you go this route, buy some .453 diameter balls.
Those, over a powder charge of 25-30 grains of powder for a steel framed gun, or 18-22 grains of powder for a brass framed gun will work fine.
Oh, by the way. You didn't say if your pistol has a brass frame. Not the trigger guard and backstrap which are always brass.
If the pistol has a brass frame, forget the bullets.
The force needed to load them with the loading lever, the recoil of the cylinder when the gun fires and just the pressure of driving a elongated bullet thru the barrel can damage the brass framed guns.
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Zonie said:
I can agree with that. :thumbsup:
rodwha
58 Cal.
Please don't tell me you're just going to do another hit and run. Don't just spout some stuff and run away, which is what you always seem to do as you've yet to answer a question posed, or remark on a retort. I, and many others, could likely learn from your wealth of expertise as my little mind obviously can't wrap around too much.
Thanks to all who replied to my initial question. My revolver is a brass frame and from your comments, I now intend to only use round balls. I also think I will start with a powder load of 12 grains and take it from there.
Can anyone point me to how to make paper cartridges that will work well in my brass frame .44? I have seen a few videos on YouTube but I am still not sure exactly what paper to use. I would like some advice from someone who has made paper cartridges with round balls. What is the best paper to use? What size tube should I make? How should I carry paper cartridges once I make them? Any other helpful tips on making successful paper cartridges with round balls?
Thanks for your replies.
Can anyone point me to how to make paper cartridges that will work well in my brass frame .44? I have seen a few videos on YouTube but I am still not sure exactly what paper to use. I would like some advice from someone who has made paper cartridges with round balls. What is the best paper to use? What size tube should I make? How should I carry paper cartridges once I make them? Any other helpful tips on making successful paper cartridges with round balls?
Thanks for your replies.
rodwha
58 Cal.
I had a hard time making paper cartridges with RB's so I just made powder packets. But this is because I didn't want to wrap the cigarette paper around the whole ball.
starman, methinks :hmm: yer overthinking this issue. Loading a c&b is a simple process. Yes, the round ball will be as effective as a bp revolver can be. Use only soft lead for the rb. A measure for loading is just fine. The 'cartridge' idea seems an unnecessary fuss 'n bother thing to me. I know some used them but, really....why? I don't do much pistol shooting anymore (bad shoulders 
) but after many years of greasing over the cylinders I eventually took a liking to waxed wads. Simple to use and clean. With round balls you still have enough cylinder room for effective loads. Enjoy.
) but after many years of greasing over the cylinders I eventually took a liking to waxed wads. Simple to use and clean. With round balls you still have enough cylinder room for effective loads. Enjoy.rodwha
58 Cal.
I used a 7/16 dowel rod. Then I cut a cigarette paper in half and wrapped it around and licked it. The end that wasn't wrapped around the dowel I glued with a glue stick and folded over the end of the dowel. Then I pulled it off of the dowel, poured the powder and twisted this end tightly making a little tail which I then snipped short with scissors.
I also made them using conicals attached instead of folding the end and gluing it.
And I also tried nitrating the paper but lost interest.
I made a video that had to be cut into 3 parts for someone asking to see it done. I'll see if I can find it.
I enjoyed making the paper cartridges, but I found it quite handy, especially when dealing with people who aren't as patient as I am, so as to shoot more in a shorter time frame.
I now have rubbery speed loader tubes that Dixie sells as they are easier and reusable with no paper residue left in the chamber.
I also made them using conicals attached instead of folding the end and gluing it.
And I also tried nitrating the paper but lost interest.
I made a video that had to be cut into 3 parts for someone asking to see it done. I'll see if I can find it.
I enjoyed making the paper cartridges, but I found it quite handy, especially when dealing with people who aren't as patient as I am, so as to shoot more in a shorter time frame.
I now have rubbery speed loader tubes that Dixie sells as they are easier and reusable with no paper residue left in the chamber.
rodwha
58 Cal.
Here's the thread which has the video at the end:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/281350/post/1296531/hl//fromsearch/1/
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/281350/post/1296531/hl//fromsearch/1/
Last edited by a moderator:
Rodwha, thanks for all of the information. I found the post from 2013 about paper cartridges to be very interesting, along with your two videos. I see you gave up on adding nitrate to the paper but instead now use cigarette paper. Now a few additional questions. After loading these powder packets and round balls into the cylinders, do you grease the end of each chamber? If so, with what? Do you place caps on the nipples by hand or use a capper? If you use a capper, what is the best style for a .44 revolver? Because my revolver has a brass frame, I am going to stick with 12 to 15 grains of powder. If too much space is left by using only 12 to 15 grains of powder, I have read some fill up the space between the powder and ball with corn meal. Is this the proper thing to do? I assume you just add the corn meal on top of the powder as opposed to mixing the powder and corn meal together. Finally for now, if a chamber fails to fire, how do you go about unloading it? The rubber speed loaders you now use sound interesting, but I think I want to start by making the paper powder packets and cartridges. I appreciate all comments!
rodwha
58 Cal.
The cigarette papers (American Spirits) worked very well for me, but would leave a small piece of paper residue in a chamber or three each time. I wondered if it would become a problem if I left them, and fired 3 cylinders without removing any and had no problems. I'm not sure how long you could go or if it would cause any problems.
Nitrating those papers just wasn't so much fun anymore, and was a little messy with crystals falling off when you worked with them.
I have never greased over the chambers. It's a bit messy, but it's hot in TX and it might just end up dripping or coming off under recoil. Some people do though, and it works.
I often shot without any lube with balls, but if I did lube it was with home punched wads soaked in Gatofeo's #1 lube. Great stuff which I also use as conical lube.
My father gave me an inline capper when he gave me my Old Army, but it gave me problems so I just cap by hand.
I've heard a lot of praise for the Ted Cash snail capper, but many Remington 1858's seem to have smaller openings and just don't fit well, though I've also read of someone modifying their capper to work.
With a brass frame I've read 25 grns is about the absolute max you'd want to load in it to keep it from battering the recoil shield and opening up the cylinder gap.
Many people use Cream of Wheat as filler. My father gave me a bottle of it too, and I've used it, but I grew tired of measuring another thing, especially in the wind. That's what I use wads for, which are easy to use and the same each load.
You certainly add the filler between the powder and projectile. Don't mix it with the powder.
When I've had a chamber fail to fire it's been because the cap was missing the priming compound inside. Recap and shoot, unless it's contaminated powder or a nipple channel that was plugged. You'll want a nipple pick, which is the easier things to try first.
If you do have a fail to fire continue to point down range as there could possibly be a hang fire as well. Give it a while before you mess with it.
To unload a loaded chamber you can try pulling the projectile with a ball puller. There's also a CO2 discharger tool which attaches to the back end and quickly pressurizes it like a pellet gun to dislodge it.
I greatly enjoyed making paper cartridges and still have plenty of packs of papers still.
Nitrating those papers just wasn't so much fun anymore, and was a little messy with crystals falling off when you worked with them.
I have never greased over the chambers. It's a bit messy, but it's hot in TX and it might just end up dripping or coming off under recoil. Some people do though, and it works.
I often shot without any lube with balls, but if I did lube it was with home punched wads soaked in Gatofeo's #1 lube. Great stuff which I also use as conical lube.
My father gave me an inline capper when he gave me my Old Army, but it gave me problems so I just cap by hand.
I've heard a lot of praise for the Ted Cash snail capper, but many Remington 1858's seem to have smaller openings and just don't fit well, though I've also read of someone modifying their capper to work.
With a brass frame I've read 25 grns is about the absolute max you'd want to load in it to keep it from battering the recoil shield and opening up the cylinder gap.
Many people use Cream of Wheat as filler. My father gave me a bottle of it too, and I've used it, but I grew tired of measuring another thing, especially in the wind. That's what I use wads for, which are easy to use and the same each load.
You certainly add the filler between the powder and projectile. Don't mix it with the powder.
When I've had a chamber fail to fire it's been because the cap was missing the priming compound inside. Recap and shoot, unless it's contaminated powder or a nipple channel that was plugged. You'll want a nipple pick, which is the easier things to try first.
If you do have a fail to fire continue to point down range as there could possibly be a hang fire as well. Give it a while before you mess with it.
To unload a loaded chamber you can try pulling the projectile with a ball puller. There's also a CO2 discharger tool which attaches to the back end and quickly pressurizes it like a pellet gun to dislodge it.
I greatly enjoyed making paper cartridges and still have plenty of packs of papers still.
starman
I can understand why you want to make up some paper cartridges and you probably have heard/read this before but, be sure to keep your unfired cartridges in a tightly sealed container if they are anywhere near the area your shooting in.
These cap & ball pistols have flames and sparks flying in all directions when they fire and the last thing you want is for something to ignite your cartridges before they are loaded.
Another thing. Loading the chambers with loose powder rarely leaves a smoldering ember in the chamber after the shot.
This can not be said if some paper cartridges were loaded into a chamber.
Small bits of burning/smoldering paper can remain behind after the shot and if you load a new powder cartridge before they ember dies out you will get a very unwelcome surprise.
I can understand why you want to make up some paper cartridges and you probably have heard/read this before but, be sure to keep your unfired cartridges in a tightly sealed container if they are anywhere near the area your shooting in.
These cap & ball pistols have flames and sparks flying in all directions when they fire and the last thing you want is for something to ignite your cartridges before they are loaded.
Another thing. Loading the chambers with loose powder rarely leaves a smoldering ember in the chamber after the shot.
This can not be said if some paper cartridges were loaded into a chamber.
Small bits of burning/smoldering paper can remain behind after the shot and if you load a new powder cartridge before they ember dies out you will get a very unwelcome surprise.
In response to Zonie and rodwha:
If I don’t use a powder packet but place the powder directly into the chamber, do you place a wad over the powder before inserting the ball? If so, what do you use for a wad?
Secondly, rodwha stated:
“I often shot without any lube with balls, but if I did lube it was with home punched wads soaked in Gatofeo's #1 lube. Great stuff which I also use as conical lube. I often shot without any lube with balls, but if I did lube it was with home punched wads soaked in Gatofeo's #1 lube. Great stuff which I also use as conical lube.”
Is rodwha referring to the wad that is placed over the powder if a powder packet is not used? Why would I want to lube or not lube? Also, what would I make wads from if making my own?
If I don’t use a powder packet but place the powder directly into the chamber, do you place a wad over the powder before inserting the ball? If so, what do you use for a wad?
Secondly, rodwha stated:
“I often shot without any lube with balls, but if I did lube it was with home punched wads soaked in Gatofeo's #1 lube. Great stuff which I also use as conical lube. I often shot without any lube with balls, but if I did lube it was with home punched wads soaked in Gatofeo's #1 lube. Great stuff which I also use as conical lube.”
Is rodwha referring to the wad that is placed over the powder if a powder packet is not used? Why would I want to lube or not lube? Also, what would I make wads from if making my own?
