want to bulid a "family rifle"

[fleener]

My interest over the years has always been percussion rifles. I am certainly not an expert on flintlocks styles. However, I have always loved some of the flintlocks that are works of art.

I have an interest in creating a rifle that one of my family members might of carried and would appreciate some opinions.

This is what I know my grandfathers.

As far as I know, all of my grandfathers were farmers.

The first Fleener to come to the America came from the Germany area. They had a son Jacob.

Jacob was born in Bucks Co., Penn., ca 1750
Jacob vas one of the original settlers in Washington Co., Virginia, in 1775.

In 1791, Jacob sold his land in Virginia and bought in the adjacent county of Sullivan, Tennessee

The family migrated to Indiana from Wayne County, Kentucky, in 1823. From IN they migrated to Iowa.

Fleeners were members of a company of more than 100 patriots under Col. Campbell of Washington County, Virginia, who fought with the forces of General Green in the Battle of King's Mountain in October of 1781 ­ Revolutionary War.
* * * * * * *
Many Fleener families followed the Daniel Boone Trail into Kentucky and Indiana following the Revolution. One, John Fleenor established Fleenor's Fort near Salem, Indiana, to repel Indian attacks. John and his oldest son, Nicholas, enrolled under William Henry Harrison's command and fought to drive back the great chief, Tecumsek, at the Battle of Tippecanoe.
* * * * * * *
Fleeners having served on the side of the Confederacy and others on the side of the Union during the Civil War.

With the wide range of time period and physical locations in America would I be safe in picking just about any style of flintlock?

thanks

Fleener

 

[Wes/Tex]

I'd recommend you check out the "Links" page here and go through the list of builders there plus some of the other makers mentioned on the "flintlock" rifle or "smoothbore" sections. Basically your info says you ancestor was around the Penn./Virginia plus later journeys around the central southern U.S. This opens up many of the 'schools' of rifle making going on then. Pick the style you like best, it's possible as well traveled as the Fleener boys were, they came across the style. Check out shops, shoots or makers you can get to. Hold their guns and find what fits best. There's a style for every one and when you find the one that you can look at the target, close your eyes, raise the gun and find it right on...you're home! :wink: :thumbsup:

 

[don hepler]

Sounds like, about anything, from a Bucks County, to a Virginia, to a southern mountain, or Kentucky rifle, would work fine. I'd say a Bucks County, first, Virginia, second, and so on. Pick one you like.

 

[nchawkeye]

I'd go with a Christian Springs or an early Lancaster...Jacob would have been 25 when he moved to Virginia so he would have already had a rifle...

btw...Green wasn't at Kings Mountain, that was before he got down here...

 

[Vaino]

Judging from the synopsis of your family history, a Bucks County or Virginia LR would be appropriate. Of the 2, the Bucks County would be more difficult to "get right". Also of the 2, the Virgina would be earlier. Of course as people moved to different areas, the "new" style guns came w/ them. I wouldn't get too "hung up" on which style you should build.....who knows that one of your relatives bought a Lancaster and took it to Virginia.....Fred

 

[tecum-tha]

Jacob most likely had not a rifle, but a smoothbore or eventually a straight rifled rifle.
It is unlikely that he brought a gun with him from Germany, most immigrants were too poor to afford one or were not allowed to own firearms.
Jacob may have had a transitional gun or may have opted more for a jaeger style fowler (that is what his parents probably knew).
I guess none of his guns was ever fancy or with much carving etc. Farmers were utilitarian people with the guns being important but also expensive.

 

[Billnpatti]

You would have to pick which period of time in the lives of your ancestors you would want your rifle from. If you want something to represent your earliest ancestors who came to America from Germany, they might have chosen a gun that was familiar to them and that would have most likely been a smoothbore Jager rifle. A generation later, you might be looking at something like an Early Lancaster but still a smoothbore would most likely have been their choice. A smoothbore was most often chosen by the early settlers for many reasons but mainly because it could either fire shot for small game and birds but could also fire round balls for larger game. Both shot and ball could be used for protection. The smoothbore was just a very versatile gun and was most often chosen over the rifle because of this versatility because most families could afford only one long gun. By the 1830s, the flintlock was being overtaken by the caplock and many flintlocks were being converted to caplocks. Later, as they migrated west, they may have chosen a rifled bore Pennsylvania or Kentucky style rifle for its greater range and accuracy. By the time of the Civil War, the rifled barrel was becoming more popular but still, many farmers were still choosing the smoothbore because of it's versatility.

It is quite possible that your ancestors may have arrived here in the United States with no gun, purchased a smoothbore flintlock Jager style because it was a familiar style. It was passed from hand to hand from generation to generation until the 1830s when it would likely have been converted to a caplock. Of course, other long guns would likely have been acquired by succeeding generations and would have been of the style of the period from the location where they were living at the time.

You must choose what time period you want to represent and then choose an appropriate rifle or smoothbore from that period. But, if I were to suggest a long gun that could possibly represent something that may have been the first gun they had and had been in the family for several generations, my guess would be a smoothbore Jager that was converted from a flintlock to a caplock.

 

[fleener]

Thanks to each for their help.

I want a rifle that I will use. I really don't like smooth bores, or muskets. So will most likely stay away from these.

I realize that for a farmers gun they most likely have would be plain, but I think I want to fancy it up a bit. I would hate to have my ancestors think I was cheap :wink: . However, they would most likely think I am vain.....

I have been poking about on some builders websites as I don't think my talent will do this project justice.

Do like the looks of a Christians Springs style rifle.

If you got more suggestions keep them coming.

Thanks

Fleener

 

[gunmaker43]

Your family history is extraordinary ! It opens up the whole westward migration of our people. SO build what your eye tells you. It'll all fit..Great to hear such a story. Tom

 

[54ball]

I realize that for a farmers gun they most likely have would be plain, but I think I want to fancy it up a bit. I would hate to have my ancestors think I was cheap . However, they would most likely think I am vain.....

This is a common misconception about 18th Century guns especially rifles. The expense was in the barrel and lock. Carving and engraving was expected in that artful era of Craftsmanship, especially on an expensive item like a rifle.



A good rifle gun may cost more than the farm so it should reflect that. This is a comment I made about the very plain Carolina Trade Gun

The plain Indian Trade gun pictured, still has brass, still has engraving on the side plate, thumb piece, lock and butt plate. Also it's architecture is very artfully done. Compared to guns made a generation or so later and especially now. It's a work of art and not plain at all.

Link Virginia Rifle

Link early rifle examples

Link Chambers Virginia

 

[Wes/Tex]

Well, if you like Christian Springs style and want to be an early Fleener, here's a real anti-tank version:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/487/1/AAM-351 :rotf:

 

[tecum-tha]

This is a common misconception about decorations. I agree that imported guns from England and Germany or the Netherlands definitively had a fair amount of carving on there. But this is due to the situation in Europe where guilds were dictating the trade and the competition was fierce.
When we check for example the rifles from Franz Muck which one very elaborate lock and barrel is shown in the book "Steinschlossjaegerbuechsen" (available at Jim Chambers with English translation if desired) and then check the rifle from Franz Muck which I had restored and currently shoot, my gun is a plain Jane.
The available books from a German gunsmith (the Kuchenreuthers which are still in business today) of the late 18. century show clearly that different furniture material and metal work and elaborate carvings were pretty pricey.In this book the orders and the prices were listed. The nowadays available original pieces which can be seen clearly show about 50% plain Janes and then about 50% fancy rifles. I bet the ratio was once 85% plain Jane rifles and maybe 15% elaborate ones.
A lot of the plain Janes were also later converted or the barrels and other parts recycled into a new gun or gun wore out from use. This is the reason imho why there are far less plain Janes on the market today.
Very elaborate guns were built by gunsmith mostly for nobility (upper and lower) and the title of Hofbuechsenmacher = gunsmith for the court was a desired title, because it was usually linked to a monetary yearly allowance by the sovereign. In order to please the sovereign of the land, there were very elaborate rifles built. But, even the King of Bavaria complained in a letter to his brother about the very high price for a pair of pistols he sent as a gift to Napoleon I. in Paris.

Now, the situation in the colonies was different. There were no guilds and the gunsmith were quite far and in between. If a gunsmith was talented his work was probably sought after and he had to make money as well. A plain Jane shoots just as well as an elaborate gun. A minimum and plain amount of carving was probably carried on from the builders because they were used to it, but real elaborate guns were not common in the 1750ies for a farmer.

 

[54ball]

I guess I need to get into more detail.
A 1770s era rifle, based on surviving examples should have some decoration. Wood box rifles tend to be plainer than metal box rifles.

A 1770s rifle can be of plain to highly figured wood, It should have forestock moulding as well as moulding carved around the lock panel terminating in a beaver tail. Many had buttstock moulding terminating at the trigger, especially step wristed rifles. The cheek should be sculpted with a simple design carved behind the cheek. The side plate should have some engraving. A wood box rifle should have some simple carved decoration on the lid. A metal box rifle will need some engraving on the lid.

What I described is a typical American rifle from the era and is actually pretty plain compared to a Golden Age Rifle or very very plain compared to European Rifle made for nobles or Royalty.

This is a Beck Rifle. Note It has the butt moulding, lock moulding and simple carved out thumb grip on the box lid. The cheek is sculpted with carving behind.

 

[54ball]

Link Clay Smith Christian Springs
This is a very good parts set from a fine maker.

the next link is a 1773 letter from Christian Springs gunmaker Christian Oerter.
Link Letter

 

[excess650]

Washington County, Va was quite a trek from Bucks County, Pa. I would speculate that he HAD a rifle before making the journey. The gun shop at Christian Springs didn't open until the late 1750s or early 1760s, and gun making in Lancaster was established prior to 1740. Wolfgang Haga was in Reading prior to 1752.

There was a Moravian settlement in NC, and "the wagon road" followed by those folks is likely the same route taken by your ancestors.

IMO, an early Lancaster was far more common back in the day than a Berks or Christian Springs.

Where did your ancestor live prior to 1775, and when did that journey begin? If he lived south and west of Lancaster, he might have had something entirely different.

 

[fleener]

Information gathered from various sources, but not doc­umented, indicates that the first ancestors of the Fleener family to immigrate to America came from the Rhineland, Palatinate, Germany and settled in Maryland ca 1742. They were Johan (or Leonard) Pfleugner and his son, Peter. peter had five sons, John, Nicholas, Michael, Jasper and Jacob.
That Jacob was born in Bucks Co., Penn., ca 1750 has been documented by statements in Michael Fleener's (his brother) application for a pension folloving military service during the Revolutionary War.
Jacob vas one of the original settlers in Washington Co., Virginia, in 1775.


Hope this helps.

I am really enjoying the help and history lesson on flintlocks.

I don't know that I will pick a rifle that the "first" Fleener in the new world could of carried, just want to be somewhat correct. I realize no matter what I pick I could be way off.

thanks

Fleener

 

[Wes/Tex]

just want to be somewhat correct. I realize no matter what I pick I could be way off.

Unfortunately, that's correct. Without an original or documentation of it, it's really tough to be certain about who found what or where. Without something specific, you can only make an educated guess, at best. Good luck with your search. :thumbsup:

 

[rich pierce]

Sounds like the main thing to focus on is the decade in which your gun would have been made. Bucks county style did not develop before 1780s at the earliest, for example.