The load was 200 grains of Goex 2F

[paulvallandigham]

The gun was my .50 cal. rifle, with a GM barrel, 1:48" ROT, 39 inches long, and the powder charge was 100 grains of FFFg Goex powder behind a .490 ball with a .015 patch, lubed with Young Country 101 lube. The Max. Eff. load under the DF would be 85 grains, approx.

Oh, I started with the 100 grain charge. If we didn't find any powder residue on the sheet, I was prepared to go up to 110 grains, but no further. This barrel is 13/16" across the flat- to minimize weight without swamping the barrel- and I intended it always to be a RB barrel. In fact, I ordered a 1:70" ROT GM barrel,[ but the builder put the 1:48" on instead], specifically to make it a better RB barrel, that would be more forgiving of variances in volume powder charges. It was never intended to be firing Heavy charges.

 

[skunkskinner]

Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[Rat Trapper]

Paul, yes he was using a false muzzle. Had read and heard about them over the years, but it was the first time I ever saw one. Yes it may have been the slug gun range,as I didn't see him use a patch, but he told us he was using round balls. His gun weighted 40 pounds and the barrel was as big around as a chevy truck axle.

 

[paulvallandigham]

There are some bench matches for heavy guns shooting RBs. I don't understand the use of a false muzzle to load a RB, however.

The False muzzle was designed to align bullets with the bore, to insure concentric seating of the bullets in the rifling, shot after shot. Concentric means CENTERED in the bore, and NOT COCKED to one side or the other.

A properly crowned muzzle is all that is needed to run a RB down the barrel that meets these requirements.


Regardless, I do hope you enjoyed your trip to Friendship, and will return again. I am hoping to get over there this weekend for the beginning of the Spring National matches. Watching those Bench rest shooters fire their guns has always been a treat for me.

 

Paul,
False muzzles are used not only to align conicals in the bore for consistant seating but also to protect the muzzle from damage, as opposed to trying to align a RB. Most heavy target rifles do not have crowned muzzles.
Mark

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I have three pistols with false muzzles. I thought that was a bit peculiar since muzzle loader pistols are not looking for subMOA accuracy at distances where it would seem to count.

 

[Tom Compton]

I have 2 full stocked hunting guns with false muzzles. Mostly to protect the muzzle from ramrod wear but I also use them for one shot loading blocks.

Many of the heavy bench guns in this part of the world use false muzzles to squeeze VERY tight ball and patch combinations which fit the rulles but produced an el0ongated bullet. Some loaded .570 RBs into .56 barrels which fit the letter of the law .

40-60 pound guns with sealed ignitions are common with 48" barrels up to 2" across the flats. As I recall Brizeen (sp?) barrels were the most common. Even have seen one with underhammer flintlock.

Scott Summers' heavy bench gun, "Fat Alice", was/is a 2" X 48" .58 that used 300 gr FFg on the 200 yard range when the wind was really blowing at Brady, TX. Charges were scale weighed as well as PRBs.

 

[paulvallandigham]

You see all kinds of stuff on the ranges. I am not surprised to see anyone using a false muzzle, for oversized RBs, but it does surprise me that someone claims that cross hatched, paper strips were used with a false muzzle to load RBs. This particular technique is most often seen when bullets are being loaded through a false muzzle.

 

Paul,
I too have never heard of paper cross patches used for anything but conicals, and always through a false muzzle.
Mark

 

[Old Salt]

Typically these guys only shoot one shot at each bulls eye. The target will have six bulleyes, one for sighter and five for score. The reason for that is to ensure the location of each shot. When you see a target that scores 50-5X you understand why.

Take a look at some of the record scores for chunk gun matches and RB chunk gun matches on the NMLRA web site and you'll see that perfect chunk gun scores aren't uncommon.

I think Ned Roberts book "The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle" shows a few examples of chunk guns. Heavy barrels > 2" in diameter and 60" long with false muzzles are the norm.

Salt

 

[zimmerstutzen]

From what I read here and eleswhere in the past week about slug guns and chunk guns, I think those guys at Blue Mtn Muzzleloaders were shooting slug guns. I never paid attention to what projectiles they were loading I wqas in awe just seeing those monstrous guns. At the 300 yd mark, with wind flags out, they were shooting all shots at one rather large paper bull target (perhaps 24in x 24in). The one day I was there a squall was moving through and no one was shooting and another day was dead calm and overcast and they were shooting up a storm. One guy was so happy over his target it was like a little kid seeing his birthday cake. It had a cloverleaf of 60-ish caliber holes. For some reason, I got the idea they only fired three shots per 20 minute relay for a match. Maybe it was something peculiar to that club. I know the guns were sure peculiar.

 

[Tom Compton]

The six bull target Old Salt mentioned is normal for 50 yard bench guns. Longer distances use different targets.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I shot light bench several times with roundball at 100yd 6 bull targets. My H&A underhammer with peep sights did right fair in those matches.

 

[D. Bowman]

The guns at Blue Mountain were a little different than the chunk guns I have seen. Both big and heavy, but those bench rest guns all had false muzzles and very expensive reciever sights.
I remember that one shooter laid two strips of paper across the false muzzle like an "x" before he started the bullet. Only time I ever saw that.

They also had something they called "sealed ignition". A cap would screw down on top over the percussion cap and nipple. I suppose to keep the gases from escaping out the nipple. from what I gathered from listening, all the actions were made by one or two guys. There were perhaps 15 shooters at the last bench rest match I saw there.

It was clearly a group of guys with very specialized guns.

the few over log guns I have seen didn't have false muzzles and were generally side locks with massive barrels, but not as long as those guys at Blue Mtn.

(incidentally, on Sharpshooters, on the History channel, they showed a flinter with a ten foot barrel. It was a wall gun and looked to be about a one inch bore)


Hey Wattsy, here is a link to a picture of a very similar but shorter gun than those used at Blue Mtn. http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=3010&do=detail&Cat2Option=yes[/quote]

Zimm,
I think you are getting your guns mixed up. I shoot at Blue Mountain in Shartlesville and know most of the shooters there(never seen a 60 inch barrel bench gun there) most are 40 to 48 inches.

The gun you saw with the crossed paper patching is called a slug gun that shoots cast slug bullets.

The gun on the history channel with the 10 ft barrel was probably a punt gun used mostly on the eastern shore for commercial waterfoul hunting and was mounted in a boat.

Blue Mountain does not have a 300yd range 200yds is the longest they have.

 

[Old Salt]

After looking again in the Roberts book I didn't find any 60" barrels either. I apologize for the mistake.

I know I've seen some large diameter and long barreled rifles somewhere, probably at Dixon's Fair.

The book referred to the rifles as "machine rest rifles"

Salt

 

[Dphar]

Bench gun shooters use a lot more powder than people usually shoot in hunting rifles.
200 gr in a 54 RB bench gun would not surprise me.
But most people don't go where these guys shoot and look and listen.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

There are/were a few rifles in the 60-80 pound range.
Horace Warner made a very heavy slug gun in 69 caliber for a grudge match against Perry(?). IIRC it weighs about 70 pounds.
This rifle is still around and sees occasional use according to a conversation I had last Saturday with a guy that knows the owner who he described as a shooter.
This is the Holy Grail of slug guns. Huge gun made by a HUGE historical name in slug guns.
The legend says that the rifle shot so well that Warner never really used it in matches since people did not want to compete against it.
It would have a huge advantage in wind bucking over even a 58 caliber.
Dan

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Swiss. Last time I was at Blue Mtn was either Memorial Day or Labor Day weekend back around 1985. There were at least three of those heavy guns that were longer than the owners/shooters were tall. There were only about 20 people there and only about 12 or 15 shooters. Now whether it was 300yds or 200yds, I'll admit I might be mistaken. But I had just come from a weekend of shooting 100 yds up at Blue Ridge and I remember the distance was much farther than what I had been shooting at Blue Ridge. I went by what I was told. They once shot several hundred yards up at Blue Ridge but wouldn't let anyone shoot that long whenever I was there. The shooting bench was half way up the hill about even with the hooters, but out in the open. They removed it before the last time I was there, around 1990 or 1992

 

[chapmans]

Here is a flint bench gun I restocked a year ago, it is .54 caliber flint, the barrel alone weighs 42 lbs I didn't measure the length of the barrel but it is 2 1/2" across the flats. this rifle has a false muzzle as do most of the heavy bench guns, it has a large Siler lock and a Morgan butt plate.


IIRC he shoots 185 gr of 2f and a .540 rb with a teflon coated patch

 

[Bob Gular]

Super woodwork!