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Sykes patent flameproof valve

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patch knife

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Hi folks , I recently bought a powder flask that has a Sykes patent flameproof valve with the adjustable powder measure . I never load directly from my flask , but I was wondering if it is safe to load from the flask with the Sykes patent valve . :confused:
 
I am absolutely totally 100% sure I'll get all sorts of grief for this, but i've got one of those flasks and load my S x S 12 gauge cap-lock shotgun directly from the flask. (Indexed to match my Irish shot chargers.) I don't recommend it, I can't endorse it, I disavow any knowledge of this statement and accept no liability whatsoever, but there ya go. Been doing it for more than a while and have never had a problem. I often also load my smokewagon cylinders from the flask. Then again, I've never been able to find an ember in the barrel of any of my pieces, even when I've actively tried. Fate being what it is, maybe it'll happen this weekend. You probably shouldn't do it, but best of luck whatever you try.
 
The problem with all the gates on powder flasks and horns is that residue builds up on the gate. Humidity condenses on the brass or steel metal, and the black powder dust sticks to it. When it dries out, the dust is flammable. The gate's purpose is twofold: One: to cut off a measured charge for your gun: two: to act as a physical barrier in the event any fire or spark gets to the powder charge in the tube, to prevent it from igniting the larger powder charge in the flask or horn, creating a bomb!

Now, if the gate is coated with black powder residue, and if its flammable, the concern is that it cannot reliably perform its second, and major safety, function. That residue, in my personal experiences also prevents the gate from closing off the powder charge, making the first function questionable. It was this occurrence which had me take the measure apart, and that is when I found all the black powder residue on the gate and surrounding structures.

If you clean that gate frequently- like after every trip outdoors in humid conditions, or in cold conditions when you go from the cold to a warm indoors where condensation hits everything, including the lens of your eye glasses( a good clue that you need to attend to your flask and gun) then I think the metal gates will perform both functions correctly, and there is little danger of an explosion or fire. At the very least, the gate should be cleaned everytime you fill the horn or flask with powder. Keep both moisture and oil off the gate, as both attract powder residue.

However, to be on the very safest side of this, load from the flask to a separate powder measure- as required at all NMLRA sanctioned shoots- and then to your gun. YOu can expect any range officer who catches you loading from the horn, even with this kind of gated measure attached to the horn or flask to order you to stop doing it , or leave the range. His job has to be to worry about the safety of all shooters, and worry about the liability of the range owners if you or someone should be hurt. Don't give him any backtalk. It is because of him, and the enforcement of sterner rules that we have gun clubs with ranges, and these clubs can obtain any kind of insurance coverage. Without insurance, no one could sponsor a shoot.

If you had to pay a $100-$500 entry fee just to shoot a monthly match, most of us would not be shooting at our clubs, or even be able to join as members. The reason we can shoot so cheaply is because the long and excellent safety record of shooting ranges, with their tough range rules, and tougher range officrs, has made our sport very safe, and the number of incidents that occur each year very small. Considering the catastrophic injuries that can occur should a spark get into a flask or powder horn, it does not take a genius to understand that even one such event would raise insurance premiums to a level where most clubs could not afford them.

Have a good time, but always, first and last, be safe, for your own sake, for your family's sake, and for the sake of your friends who shoot with you. We have enough Accidental discharges, mechanical failues in equipment, and other problems on ranges when people allow themselves to be distracted, or just don't know what they are doing, that we don't need to increase the risks out there.
 
Murphy IS a muzzleloader, need I say more. Remember, he's the guy who said "If anything can go wrong, it will" Bill
 
My father (a PhD in mathematics and theoretical statistics) once told me that you calculate acceptable risk in your life not by the odds of being right, but by your ability to accept the consequences of being wrong.

From there it is all a matter of individual choice.

CS
 
Thank you all for your opinions :hatsoff: . Since I am fond of both my hands , and my fancy flask , and I don't want to put the safety of others at risk . I've decided to continue to load , using a seperate measure . The convenience of loading from the measure on the flask , even though it has a Sykes patent valve and the possibility of blowing up is remote , is not worth the risk to me , since all of the replies to this post indicate , that the possibility does exsist . Again , thank you all for your help :hatsoff: .
 
Another thing to consider is how wll the gate actually seals. With the Sykes, the gate is sandwiched so it should seal (both water and flame proof) on both sides when new and clean. On the flask I got, the gate was so much thinner than the gap between the plates that I had to make a ~30-thou shim, with matching holes and all, to get it even close to sealing. I was going to return it for an exchange when they finally got more of this model in stock, but then I looked closely at the pictures on-line and all from this supplier appeared to have the same slop, so I just lived with my improvisation. I measure with the spout, but load via my palm or an intermediate container like an oversized measure.

And I wasn't overly impressed with the non-soldered copper cotter-pin suspension points, either.

Joel
 
Thanks for your input , Joel . I was expecting the quality to be a little better than what I got , too . I also thought about sending mine back , but I figured they are all about the same . I suspect they may be made in India , where it seems the average quality of workmanship is mediocore , at best . Then again , $50.00 doesn't seem to buy much , these days :shake:
 
I thought you might like to hear a little about Sykes.
THE POWDER FLASK BOOK by Ray Riling, Copyright Bonanza Books, MCMLIII, under BRITISH MAKERS says

"Thomas Sykes. This maker is first mentioned in the Sheffield General Directory for leather powder flasks and military powder horns...

In the 1828 Directory and Guide for Sheffield, both Thomas Sykes and Sykes & Son are listed as makers of patent powder flasks...

Apparently between 1797 and 1817 Sykes & Son or Thomas Sykes began to manufacture powder flasks and before 1820 they bacame patentees of a particular type of powder flask; and then they went out of business between 1862 and 1864.

The Thomas Sykes referred to is the patentee of the patent powder flask which was substantially copied and imitated in the products of nearly all of the makers of conventional fireproof powder flask of the nineteenth century.

The number of his patent is 3828, dated Aug. 4, 1814..."

Then, again, he didn't have the only patent on Flasks.
The book mentions 46 American Patents which were granted, many of these dealing with shot, wad and ball dispensers. Even Col Colt had some. :grin:
 
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