Swagged or Cast

[50cal.cliff]

I am still new to this game and I keep hearin about this subject, but don't see alot on it! Well I guess I am showin my ignorance, but I always heard the only dumb question was the one you didn't ask!
I understand what a poured bullet/ball is, but what does swagged mean?
I am also seeing some talk about the difference in acccurarcy of the two. Any one want to take a shot at this one. No Pun intended. :rotf: :rotf:

 

[silverfox]

Poured or cast is just that. Swagged is made by cutting a lead wire or plug and then putting it in a die and pressing it into shape under great pressure. This is supposed to elimate any air pockets or voids and they usually come out closeer to round that cast balls. Cast balls have a sprue and may have voids or be slightly out of round.
As for accuracy I don't think you can tell the difference in good cast balls and swagged balls for the type of shooting most of us do. The Bench Rest boys probably can.
For the difference in price I would go with good case bullets. I do my own and have never worried about their accuracy.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[Joel Boyles]

I can buy the scrap lead and cast thousands of round balls for what a couple hundred swaged balls cost. And since I already cast for several handguns (.41 Mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .357 Mag) it just seemed logical to cast my own round balls as well. Sometimes I cheat, and get a little bit of wheelweight into the mix (cause I'm too lazy to completely clean out the pot when I change from one to the other) and it seems to shoot fine, as well. I did compare accuracy of swaged versus cast bullets, and could not tell a significant difference between them.

Just my $.02

Joel

 

[spottedpony]

I think most people here will tell you, more important, is finding the right ball/patch combination. a combination of .010 combined in ball diameter and patch thickness can make lots of difference. As can powder charge.
A good example of this is my .50 hawken. likes a tight ball patch combo, .495 rb along with an .018 patch over 60 GR of either goex FF or 777FF will shoot one ragged hole @ 50 yds if i do my part. & swagged or cast balls seems to make no difference in my rifle. Others may say a .490 ball with a .010 patch gives them the best accuracy. Bottom line is, every gun, be it BP or modern, is a rule unto its own self.

remember to, change only one thing at a time when working up loads, and keep records so you know what you've tried and the results. I also keep targets along with my notes and note on the targets i keep powder type/charge, distance and ball & patch information. Having this visual aid lets me see the group 6 months or a year from now, not just an entry on a note book page that says for example xx sized group.
Last, dont worry innitially where your groups are in relation to the center of the target, find the load that shoots well for you, then adjust your sights as necessary to your point of aim.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Thanks for the great responces. Now that I understand the difference, the only thing I can see that might make a difference is that the swagged may be a more consistent load because of weight and size. That might improve accuracy, consistency in the load I mean.
I like the idea of the ledger on loads and powder. Makes good sense, I don't always rememeber like I use to. :rotf: :rotf:

 

[spottedpony]

Now that I understand the difference, the only thing I can see that might make a difference is that the swagged may be a more consistent load because of weight and size.

Cliff
try them both and see what works best for you, though i dont think you'll find any difference. ive never weighed any swagged balls to see what the weight consistancy is, but in my own cast balls, after i discard the few with obvious flaws, weights run typically from 177 to 180 grains with the batch of lead i'm using now. if i'm figgering it right thats just under 1 1/2% weight difference.
There is some controversy about the sprue position when seating a ball, causing some accuracy difference, though ive seen little difference when ive tried seating in different sprue positions. What i do out of habit as much as anything, more or less follow the "sprue up" addage, though i dont go to the extreme of making sure the sprue is centered, just so its on top of the ball where i can see it.
thats what works for me at least :grin:

 

[CrackStock]

I have found that up to .36, I use Hornady shot. Above that, I cast.

CS

 

[blacksmithman64]

I use cast balls when plinking and hornady swaged when the shootings serious!

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Spotted Pony,
Thats prabably the best advise I have heard so far. I keep shooting records and targets of all my guns to compaire with new loads, balls, powder etc...
Never!! leave anything to memory.
You compete all winter with one rifle than come fall your wondering, did I shoot this thing with .028 or .030 patch.
I like running, or casting balls, Just one more cool thing to do when it comes to muzzleloading.
When I go to rondyvooos I have my compitition rifle I shoot with weighed balls and I have my trekkin rifle that I have to run balls over the fire with my bag mold before my pard and I can go explore the woods around camp.
:hatsoff:

 

[50cal.cliff]

Thanks again for all the advice. Wish I could find a BP group around this neck of the woods. So far haven't had anyone get back to me on such a local group. You can bet though I'll be keeping a journal on my shooting. :v

 

[paulvallandigham]

Check in Muzzle Blasts, or if you are not a member, call the NMLRA and ask about local clubs. Where exactly are you in NW Florida? My brother lives in Tallahassee and is joining a local club there.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Thanks again for all the advice. Wish I could find a BP group around this neck of the woods. So far haven't had anyone get back to me on such a local group. You can bet though I'll be keeping a journal on my shooting. :v

It's a pain to find like minded folk to shoot with Greenmtnboy drives four hours to come and pick me up so we can go to local(state of CO)Shoots. He just whooped on the CO springs muzzleloading association this weekend, Not bad for a hillbilly living in the woods.
As for keeping a journel, keep targets write everything on them as well as a log. Greenmtnboy takes pic of his targrts and logs them on his laptop.
And Paul's right, Join NMLRA and get muzzleblast, not my favorite rag but you will!! be informed on events in you area.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Thanks for the info. Your brother is in what I would call NE Florida. :rotf: :rotf: I am on the other end. Next door to Pensacola. Can be in Alabama in about 20-30 minutes depending on which way I head. Or about an hours drive to Mobile, Alabama.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Okay: I did the legwork for you. The closest range listed is at Saraland, Alabama, just north of Mobile, on St. Rte. 43. Diamondback Muzzle Loaders. Contact Robyn Wiatt, 251-675-1434. The State coordinator for Florida is Ronald Russ, at Williston, 352-528-2603. Ron may know some clubs near Pensacola, or Panama City That are not Charter NMLRA clubs.

Understand, that there may be other gun clubs, with ML programs, who just have not, or don't want to affiliate with the NMLRA, in your area. Always start at sporting goods stores, and gun shops, and ask either the clerks or other customers about where to shoot. Once you get there, then ask around about BP clubs.

These tend to be small, with not much of an annual budget, so they don't have the money to advertise very much. My own gun club has been going since 1969, and we don't have an ad in the local yellow pages yet, either. ( no phone.) Newspaper ads are way too expensive. We are a Charter Club, so we do get a few inquiries from new shooters from that advertising.

 

[50cal.cliff]

:hatsoff:
Thanks for the info, you can bet I will follow up on my end. I have tried to find something out on line about local groups and have come up with nil.Once again thanks!!

 

[paulvallandigham]

You can thank me by joining the NMLRA. That is who privded the information, other than the route number to get there, which came out of my Rand McNally atlas.

 

[50cal.cliff]

:thumbsup: