Stopping power of the 1860 Colt

[M. De Land]

For some reason I could no longer reply to the original theme so have re-posted to add my thoughts.
Regardless if wither or not stopping power is a reality or not I think we can pretty much agree that a bigger heavier ball or bullet moving at equal velocity a better force multiplier than is the smaller one and more likely to tip the scales in favor of walk away from an altercation. At the very least bigger and faster is an odds amplifier!

 

[wiscoaster]

Hmmm ... isn't "stopping power" usually measured as a function of energy? Terminal velocity squared times mass? But I think it's more than that. A big hole from a heavy bullet at a slower speed is going to stop an attacker faster than a light-weight tiny bullet at a faster speed that might math out to the same energy?

 

[Smokerr]

Its not about energy. Its about lethality.

A 105 mm artillery shell going through you is immediately lethal.

Hunting it always was about shot placement. Behind the shoulder, take out the lungs and or heart and a good drop. Facing someone to the front under the kind of conditions of an armed confrontation? Yea, that is when the adrenaline kicks in and that takes a certain comportment you don't know you have.

One of the better readings was a street cop vs a cop who taught shooting. The range cop had all sorts of records to his name. He gets into a shootout and fails. Street cop that can't shoot on the range worth a hoot wins his shootout.

Its all about shot placement which is not going to be remotely precise, its why they teach center of mass. You stand the most chance to hit and that is where most of the vital stuff is.

 

[Gene721]

My friend was killed with a Margolin .22 pistol in one shot. He died instantly. Probably killer was a professional shooter. The killer was never found. I won’t write where the bullet hit, sorry.

 

[nick_1]

I broke out my 1911 yesterday. it hits the steel a LOT harder than my 1858 with roundball and 25g 777 still would not want to eat a roundball.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Its all about shot placement

Amen, Bro.

 

[nick_1]

thats why those super close and big cowboy action targets are such a bad joke.

 

[wiscoaster]

Its not about energy. Its about lethality. ... Its all about shot placement ...

Agreed.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I broke out my 1911 yesterday. it hits the steel a LOT harder than my 1858 with roundball and 25g 777

I use 30gr of 777. Now Im gonna have to go out and chony the 1860.
I figured it was around a 38 special to 45ACP. But the 45 is twice the weight.

 

[nick_1]

I am just going on how hard it hits the steel. .45acp with hardball seems to hit about twice as hard as .454 RB

 

[OldNo7]

Back to the "stopping power" question...

I think we can pretty much agree that a bigger heavier ball or bullet moving at equal velocity a better force multiplier than is the smaller one and more likely to tip the scales in favor of walk away from an altercation.

True enough. And we have to remember that back in 1863, even a .36 cal ball to the stomach area could be fatal due to infection -- many days or weeks later. (Sounds like a painful way to go...) Whether that stopped the fight at the moment or not, there's probably a wide variety of answers to that.

Old No7

 

[nick_1]

I suspect a round ball to the stomach was almost always fatal back then.

 

[M. De Land]

I suspect a round ball to the stomach was almost always fatal back then.

I remember reading an article authored by a LEO who had been shot in the chest with a 9mm but was wearing a vest. He said he was black and blue from his crotch to his Adams apple and shuddered at the though had he been hit with something like a .44 Mag even though no penetration had occurred.
I've read that one of the very worst of old time shootings was being hit in the belly from across a poker table with a .41 Derringer that tended to barely penetrate the often thick course clothing of the day but dragging some clothe into the wound channel which always resulted in sepsis infection.

 

[nick_1]

any rupture of an intestine or stomach back then and it was a done deal. Civil war soldiers knew the drill and would tear at their clothing to see where the wound was and they knew by location if they were a gonner...

 

[Smokerr]

I suspect a round ball to the stomach was almost always fatal back then.

The point is so called stopping power vs fatal. Long term fatal does you no good if the guy then shoots you anywhere (well today you may well survive no matter which end of the shooting you are on).

I shot 4 caribou with a 7mm Rem Mag. They all went 20 to 150 feet before they dropped. I always was able to place the shot behind the shoulder. None of them was knocked over. 3 of the 4 spent all energy in the animal. One excited but it did not look like a lot energy left when it did as it was a pretty good sized chunk out on the far side.

The only shot I ever heard about that was a stop shot was a moose a brother shot in the head as that was all he could see. That one did drop. Kind of hard to move if your brain box is gone. He only did that shot because it was all he had and he was both a good shot and had a very good gun (also a 7mm Rem Mag).

So, as I recall, 175 gr bullets moving something around 2800 fps.

 

[Stykbow]

All pistols have the same stopping power for me because if you shoot me with anything bigger than a BB gun I’m going to immediately stop whatever I’m doing!

 

[M. De Land]

Hmmm ... isn't "stopping power" usually measured as a function of energy? Terminal velocity squared times mass? But I think it's more than that. A big hole from a heavy bullet at a slower speed is going to stop an attacker faster than a light-weight tiny bullet at a faster speed that might math out to the same energy?

I remember reading in one of Kieths books that a union cavalry Sergeant was task with escorting a captured confederate officer to his head quarters an on the way, as both were mounted, a wild hog busted out of the brush next to them where upon the Sergeant unlimbered his 60 Colt and plugged the running hog behind the ear for some fresh pork for supper. The Sergeant re-holstered his revolver, dismounted and cut the hogs throat so he could retrieve it on his way back. He finished delivering the prisoner to head quarters and then showed the confederate officer his revolver was dry using his last round on the hog. The officer quipped "Sir had I known that was your last shot you would now be my prisoner but after I saw how easily you dispatched the running hog I realized I had no chance of escaping your marksmanship"!
Regardless of the rather low foot pound of energy present the 1860 cal.44 was considered by civil war standards to be a reliable horse and man killer.

 

[Hawk54]

thats why those super close and big cowboy action targets are such a bad joke.

That is one of the reasons I quit shooting cowboy action shooting. Huge targets close up. All about speed and making it easy for people to hit. Some people would cry the blues if they actually had to aim at a target that was any distance away.

 

[nick_1]

I don't get why they let it get so pathetic. Even watching modern uspsa videos it's the same trend. In the 80s and 90s we had lots of precision stages to go with the fast and dirty stages. There were boat loads of shooters who could knock down five six inch plates @10 yards in three seconds or less. Many with revolvers. Now theses fools are shooting 30 inch targets at 7 yards. I remember routinely having thirty yard head shots behind hostages and making those double taps with a split time between shots of about half a second..

 

[Hawk54]

I don't get why they let it get so pathetic. Even watching modern uspsa videos it's the same trend. In the 80s and 90s we had lots of precision stages to go with the fast and dirty stages. There were boat loads of shooters who could knock down five six inch plates @10 yards in three seconds or less. Many with revolvers. Now theses fools are shooting 30 inch targets at 7 yards. I remember routinely having thirty yard head shots behind hostages and making those double taps with a split time between shots of about half a second..

Agree! When I first started shooting there were a lot of fun stages with bonus pistol targets out to 25 yards and farther. Rifle targets at 50 yards. One stage had charcoal bricketts hanging on a string at 25 yards. Another had a dressed up dummy hanging by a chain simulating your pard was being lynched and you had to save him by shooting the rope/chain. Good fun. Everything went close and fast so people didn’t have to learn to be accurate. Moving the targets close and big made the less skilled shooters feel good because they could hit more.