PRB or lead conical?

[Wes/Tex]

An old Colorado Guide wrote me at some length about his feeling that the round ball tended to ricochet around inside the deer where the heavier slug tended to go through and through expendinits energy through but als beyond the deer. Not my opinion, his

Dutch

That's interesting though I must admit I've only ever found evidence of that kind of bullet behavior once. What was found some years ago with some massive testing on ball vs. conical was that the ball penetrated less and transferred more energy to the target medium versus a conical projectile that tends to whistle through carrying a fair bit of it's energy off across the tundra.

 

[Dr5x]

Wes Tex
Your testing was saying exactly the same thing as the old guide.

He also said that while both projectiles would kill the Deer, Elk, Moose. the conical. spending most of its energy downrange would also allow the animal to do some running,, usually away from the direction of your vehicle, where the round ball caused them to drop in their tracks. Again, his statement not mine

Dutch

 

[nkbj]

The one hunting advantage round ball has is it's rate of displacement (cubic inches per second). Round ball has awesome performance when used within the distance limitations created by the available acceleration with black powder and the rapid velocity loss in flight.

If you need to increase the practical envelope of the kill zone the available means have already been defined, by the 1840's in America if Ned Roberts is to be believed. By that time using heavier lead was common knowledge, techniques were being refined by manufacturers and marksmen and people began publishing on the matter. Now in our own lifetimes almost two centuries later that refining is still in-process with the development of competing designs in the marketplace from Lyman, TC, Lee and others. That's not a change; it's that same flow of our love of muzzleloading and a tinkerer's paradise.

I'm gonna go find some breakfast. Then start washing and breaking about a cubic foot of green beans. Now there's some displacement!
Yall have a great Thanksgiving.

 

[fleener]

If you are using a conical, there is no reason that you can not make a hollow point out of it and transfer that energy to the animal. I have a couple of molds that have been converted to making hollow point bullets.

I also have simply drilled out a conical to a hollow point on my drill press. At shorter ranges no really accuracy issues.


Fleener

 

[Loyalist Dave]

For me... it would be .530 patched round ball for sure. NOW I might go with a smooth rifle, so I could shoot squirrels and rabbits and such with shot, but it would be .54.

I could be happy with a 24 gauge or a 20 gauge too.

LD

 

[Dr5x]

Wes Tex,
I had everything I have to offer arranged beginning with a digitized version of everything that I sold as printed matter followed by a considerable amount of copy based on conversations held ov 3 decades.
When it was converted to where I could send it out over the internet the computer Gremlins dropped the entire System

TheSystem Itself, Target Analysis
The Dry Shooting Patch System
How to Work up a Load How I stumbled across my System
and how to make sturdy range rods etc

I now have all that to be able to begin sending it out to allast subscribers who received their "System" over the internet
as soon as I return home after Dialysis.

I intend to skip Thanksgiving to devote the time into making good my very unintentional fraud.



For those who repeatedly say
Dutch Schoultz System Works must wonder how much better it might work if you actually have and use the System.

Unhyphenated apologies to all

Dutch

 

[azmntman]

DO NOT SKIP THE HOLIDAY! we can wait.

And I rec'd mine from US mail so if you can e-mail as well lemme know. I did get a part of it via e-mail...accuracy update or somthing.

You will be remembered on T-Day as someone we are all thankful for and we would HATE to see you miss the holiday to provide an UPDATE . Just enjoy, watch some foosball and relax. We will be here when ya get around to it!

 

[Wes/Tex]

DO NOT SKIP THE HOLIDAY! we can wait.

Amen...Dutch, there is nothing so important in muzzleloading that can't wait a day...with the possible exception of pointing the muzzle at oneself! Enjoy tomorrow with family or at least playing Scrooge for the neighbors! :wink: :haha: :rotf:

 

[Spikebuck]

An old Colorado Guide wrote me at some length about his feeling that the round ball tended to ricochet around inside the deer where the heavier slug tended to go through and through expendinits energy through but als beyond the deer. Not my opinion, his

Dutch

I've shot quite a few deer with both PRB and Conicals. I've never seen evidence of richocheting around by either. All seemed to just go right on through on a pretty straight path even when hitting heavy bone. I've only had a couple that actually stayed in the deer.

I'm always surprised when people talk about a projecile that stays in vs one that passes through giving more credit to the one that stays in as "imparting more energy". It takes more energy to keep penetrating and the energy is transferred to the tissue around it, all other things being equal. A projectile that stays in did impart ALL it's energy...so what. All other things equal, one that went through imparted MORE energy and happened to have some to spare.

Personally, I want the most possible tissue damaged and a projectile that goes all the way through goes through more tissue. In addition, it causes two holes pouring blood on the ground. If a projectile has so much energy that it penetrates completely and spends some of it's energy on the far side of the animal going through field and forest, so much the better.

This post isn't supporting any type of projectile. The same could be said of a .32 caliber ball with a 30 gr load shot at a deer vs a .570 ball in front of 100 gr. The .32 caliber will probably impart all of it's energy and stay in the deer. The .570 will likely blow right on through. Which one will you choose?

 

[Walks with fire]

Whitetail deer is all I hunt and have zero experience with shooting elk. During my years of flint rifle deer hunting I have tried about every thing that can be stuffed down a barrel on deer. Patched ball is what I like. They are simple and safe. They don't move off the charge, they are very accurate, the recoil is modest, the power is acceptable and they are cheaper to shoot. The aim point for me is high shoulder not vitals. A ball stretches skin on a deer and may limit blood loss; shoulder shots put them down much quicker and shock the spinal column. The .54 is just a bit more weight and diameter than the .50 ball.They don't go far with broken shoulders either way.

Although I do like a .50; the .54 is my preference. 1/48 twist is ok for lighter loads and shorter distances but when going out to 100 yards or a tad more a slower twist will be more accurate.

With elk on your menu the .54 is the way to go if you decide on patched ball. Although out of production there are Green Mountain percussion barrels in .54 1/70 twist that will drop in to many stocks and at 32" length are very nice little rifles for not a pile of cash.

Over the years of shooting faster twists, heavier bullets just to see for myself what I liked and what I didn't; the .54 patched ball in a slow twist is what has won out in my journey.

 

[Dr5x]

This Glitch was so stupid I feel like I sort of glow

The first of many times I got fired, I came home and
my first borne 3 or 4 year old had learned a new word that day, and as I came through the door she said 'Hello Stupid"

I feel a little like that.

I took her to a movie that night. Bambi.


I've turned down a number of invitations. When you achieve the golden years, any gathering you go to they automatically put you with other old people

I;d rather stay home.

I have sent out the missing chunck =enormous = to about a hundred and going to search the trash of the computer for other older clues.


I kept incredible records but sensing an Australian attitude by our recent administration I pitched all of them for fear of harassment.

So it goes.

Dutch

 

[Dr5x]

Spike Buck says it rather convincingly.

. I;ll reeve the old guide if there are any disputes.

Dutch

 

[SgtMaj65]

Tough choice, but after shooting PRBs for just about 6 months now, I'm leaning toward them over the conicals, and it's just personal preference out of my T/C .50 Renegade. This is coming from someone who used to go after deer for years and years with Hornady Great Plains 385 grain. I'm just as accurate with the PRBs for some reason. I'm hoping to get a .54 Lyman Great Plains Rifle 1:60 to maximize my PRB shooting. I don't hunt much anymore, but like target shooting for the challenge and just because it's fun burning BP. I just can't bring myself to use any powder substitute ”” it's black or nothing. :2

 

[nkbj]

My latest experiment is a .52 bore using the commonly available off the shelf fifty caliber molds paper patched.
https://imgur.com/mszGaPp

A step up in diameter and barrel length from the .458 sleeved TC New Englander.

The New Englander can shoot revolver ball OK, making for a nice versatility.

 

[Okie Hog]

Few years ago i was bitten by the conical bug. Should of remembered why i stopped shooting conicals back in the 1960s.

The only conical that would stay on the powder in my gun was the 320 grain Maxi Ball: i had a big bunch of those.

Killed a few deer and several hogs with that bullet. Then the accuracy went away. The bore of my rifle was badly fouled with lead.

Went back to patched round ball and will not look back.

 

[nkbj]

That's the big booger bear for me with shooting lubed lead. Cleaning lead out of a one way barrel is not a fun proposition. Hey, if you get a chance to examine rifles made for long bullets (not conicals, long bullets) look very closely for corrosion at the corners of the rifling grooves. That's where you have the hard time removing the accumulation so that's where the problems are likely to begin.
Corrosive compounds behind metal fouling is bad, bad, bad.
The relatively low pressure and shallow grooves of minie barrels don't suffer so much.