Original French Charleville flint conversion

[Flint62Smoothie]

I'm trying to help a friend research this arm that was left to him by his Father. Looking for information in regards to the specific model and what something like this might be worth.

Someone else - not me :surrender: - rubbed some of the patina off the lockplate where marked with Charleville in roll script ...

Thank you! :thumbsup:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I'm not "up" on the Charleville muskets but I thought that there was a concave spot on the comb of the stock on the left side for the right side of the soldier's face..., but otherwise this looks pretty close. I would suspect that this might have been a surplus US musket, that was fitted with a converted French lock, or was made with a French flintlock and then converted, or perhaps simply cobbled together from French parts and an American made stock. The US muskets were very similar to the French designs at first.

LD

 

[MSK]

Not sure about the rammer, but otherwise it looks to me like a Model 1763 Charleville.

Smollett

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

With the 44 and 5/8 inch barrel and the flat lockplate, it is probably a French M1766 musket (often incorrectly called a M1763), the one the US copied for it's standard M1795 musket. The lack of the comb recess is correct for this musket, the recess was not used by France until the Model 1777 of the late 18th/early 19th Century. The M1777 and it successors also did not have the extended wrist of the M1766 and earlier pattern muskets. The later French muskets also had a rounded surface to the rear of the lock plate and a dip in the sides of the front band. For a good site on the M1777 and later muskets see:

http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20francaise/collection%20fusils/a%20a%20collection%20fusils%20fr.htm

All that being said, this musket is, in my opinion, French other than for the fact that the brass-tipped ramrod is a replacement and the flint to percussion conversion is American.

 

[MSK]

As I understand it, the Model 1763 (88,000 produced between 1763-1766) sported a lock nearly always marked "Charleville." The Model 1766 (140,000 produced between 1766-1777) was a lighter version of the 1763 model (in fact multiple extant Rev War invoices refer to a "light Model 1763" musket). The reason I am of the humble opinion that it likely a 1763 model is because most 1766 locks were marked with "Maubeuge" or "St. Etienne," not Charleville. "Most" however, certainly does not mean "all," so it could be a Model 1766. Certainly an interesting piece; I can't offer anything in terms of a value.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

You might keep in mind that the French M1763 had only two band springs, one for the rear band and one for the middle band. The M1763 front band had a ramrod spring attached to it that extended back to the middle band. None of these features appear here, indicating that it is a M1766 which had three band springs and did away with the long ramrod spring which was attached to the front band.

As far as the name on the lock, it could be unusual to see a Charleville marked M1766, but certainly not unheard of. Most M1766 muskets, as Smollett says, were made at St. Etienne and Maubeuge. For more information on the French muskets, see the definitive American Military Shoulder Arms Volume I: Colonial and Revolutionary War Arms by George D. Moller

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Thought the picture doesn't show it well, the lockplate is clearly marked Charleville in roll script.

Hmmmmmm, did ether the m1763 or m1766 models wear a bayonet stud? I also received a private message saying that this is a m1766 model updated with the m1700 modification, by the addition of the bayonet stud.

Was this simply a stud welded on or a new barrel?

 

[MSK]

Both models had a thick brass blade sight on the front band with a socket bayonet stud on the barrel just as yours has. The stud is also mounted under the barrel on many, an improvement affording the soldier a clear front sight picture (for whatever that was worth). It is quite possible your musket saw service in the Rev War.

Smollett.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

French muskets all had bayonet studs fitted by a very shallow dovetail and brazing, then filing to match the barrel contour. The bottom stud, as Smollett says, allowed for a clearer sight picture with the brass sight on the front band.