Old Black Powder

[jbullard1]

I recently bought a LOT of reloading/shooting supplies at an estate sale. There were 8 cans (age unknown)of bp still sealed in one box of stuff. It is Goex ffg it was stored for several years in an outdoor storage shed in the dry but a wide temperature range. Any reccomendations on trying to use it and what calibers is ffg suitable for?

 

[Blizzard of '93]

if it is not caked up from exposure to moisture then it is good to go. BP will not decompose over time if sealed.

 

[rabbit03]

If I were you I wouldn't take the chance on using it in your gun. I would send it to me and I will be glad to get rid of it for you, no problem! :blah:

rabbit03 :thumbsup:

 

[trent/OH]

There may be some markings on the top or bottom flats of the cans which indicate dates of manufacture. The oldest Goex can I have at hand has 2 lines. the bottom line is... 93SE14C

Which translates to Manufactured 14 September 1993, C shift. I offered some older powder to Goex several years ago for research purposes, and that's when they taught me to read their code. They said old powder turns up all the time.

 

[jbullard1]

The only one I can make out completly is 82MA01C
There is another one that starts 87AP???
I've opened 2 cans and poured it out No Lumps or cakes pours freely, put it back in can and resealed
Will this granulation be OK in 45 and 50 cal rifle and 12 ga shotgun

 

[RetiredMedic]

JB,Buddy,
Your not playing fair, :wink:

Send me a can and I will try it for you.

If it works, You then can use the others cans.:grin:

PS, How is the granddaughter doing?

 

[jbullard1]

Be glad to Tony if it wasnt so expensive to send 1 can
I posted an update on her @ HSF and HEF

 

[RetiredMedic]

Just kidding Buddy,,

I just received my order 2nd order of 5 cans of FFF from Goex..
I'm pretty well stocked for a while.
I'm only planning of running 3 Hunter Saftey Class's in the next 10 months...

As said already, it should be ok to use.

My Prayers to your Granddaughter and Family, Buddy.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu didn't give us the granulation size, but if the cans are FFg or FFFg you can use them in all three guns. FFFFg is priming powder to be used to PRIME flintlocks, ONLY. Fg powder is coarse powder usually used in cannons, but also is used in shotguns. I know some people who have shot in their 12 gauges. Try it if you have some.

 

[RetiredMedic]

It is Goex ffg it was stored for several years

Paul , he stated on the second line it was FFg

 

[paulvallandigham]

Thanks, RM. I missed it, even after a second look. Then his FFg should last indefinitely, if store in a cool dry place. You can't say that about opened cans of the subs, although pyrodex was improved to lengthen its shelf life. Since Black Powder is not a chemical compound but a physical mixing of three components, there is nothing to deteriorate. I have shot powder I bought from others, or inherited that was more than 30 years old, and its just as good now as the day it was produced.

The only thing I would do with old powder is run it over a screen to get out fines, and clumps. I found I got much more consistent velocities when the powder is screened, than when it isn't.

I believe Graf & Sons still makes and sells a powder screener. You can buy screen from a number of hardware suppliers, for a couple of bucks, and make your own frame and collector bucket out of stuff you have at home.

 

[jbullard1]

Thanks for the info fellows and seeing as I have only a small amount of the pyrodex left I will make one more step closer to traditional muzzleloading :thumbsup: Next is hopefully an 1851 44 cal cap and ball revolver

 

[Zonie]

Like Paul said, you can use the FFg in any of the guns you mentioned and if you are used to shooting Pyrodex you will notice a couple of things.

Ignition will noticeably improve. Almost instant.

Fouling may be more noticeable after firing 6 or more shots so be prepared to wipe the bore every so often.

All in all, I think you will be very happy with your new powder.
zonie

 

[spottedpony]

Since Black Powder is not a chemical compound but a physical mixing of three components, there is nothing to deteriorate.

Actually, any time you combine a combination of chemicals by any method, you have a compound, and to properly manufacture black powder requires more than just mixing the ingredients together dry. In the very early days of black powder, when it was common to just mix the 3 components, frequent remixing was required to maintain the proper mixed proportions and keep the ingredients from "settling". Later black powder manufacturing while still maintaining the same approximate proportions (75/15/10% saltpeter/charcoal/sulfer) It was found that processing the dry ingredients in a ball mill produced a more uniform granulation and that dampening the powder and pressing the mixture through sizing screens (a process called corning) gave the most uniform granulation and as an added benefit Corning the powder made it safer to transport, and store, and the components would not separate out, thus providing a significant increase in consistancy.
Lastly around 1860 a Major Radman, U.S. army ordinance, discovered that by adjusting the size of the powder grains, presumably via different sized screens, the burn rate of black powder could be varied. There is also some reference to "Radman" grains which apparantly had a uniform hole in the powder grains to further control burn rate.

 

[jbullard1]

Like Paul said, you can use the FFg in any of the guns you mentioned and if you are used to shooting Pyrodex you will notice a couple of things.

Ignition will noticeably improve. Almost instant.

Fouling may be more noticeable after firing 6 or more shots so be prepared to wipe the bore every so often.

All in all, I think you will be very happy with your new powder.
zonie

The fouling problem I was aware of but had I known about the improved ignition I would have made the change a long time ago. I guess that newer is not always better when it comes to powders.
Thanks

 

[paulvallandigham]

Please understand that the subs are designed to work in certain types of guns. They require hotter igntion, but when you use Magnum caps, or Musket caps, the subs can shoot well. There are downsides to every new product, as you give up one thing to get another. Nothing is free. Black Powder just happens to have been around so long that all the real " kinks", or problems have long ago been worked out. Believe me, other chemicals than Postassium Nitrate were tried, and other elements than sulphur were tried to control the rate of burning. The subs were begun to try to eliminate two problems; the high burning or combustion rate of Potassium Nitrate, and the stench when sulphur is combined with moisture forming both sulfides, and sulphuric acids. One is bad on the nose, the other other on the barrel. Add the nitric acid that forms when the Potassium Nitrate is burned in air, and you have the two chief components that corrode the barrel.

My complaint about the subs is that the advertising, at least by clerks in sporting goods stores, is not only false, but down right fraudulent. The suphur is gone. But the chemicals that replace it produce their own acids to eat at the barrel. The powders are not as quick to burn as Black Powder( making it safer to store and ship), but that also is a downside to using the powders in traditional firearms. And, the shelf life of these powders, particularly after the cans are opened, and air allowed inside, is poor.

Finally, the cost of the subs is high- almost twice the cost of black powder. When I got into the ML shooting game, it was for the purpose of doing more shooting with a large caliber gun, and at a cheaper cost, than what it cost me even handloading my centerfire cartridges. I can afford to pay more for powder, but can't figure out a good enough reason to do so. If you are new to the sport, you don't know that paying $20.00 a pound and more for powder is EXPENSIVE! But when I started shooting, we could buy powder for $3.00 a pound. I know I am getting old, but I still value the dollar, and old habits die hard.

 

[Headhunter]

I went to a shoot yesterday and used Goex FFFG that was made in 1979.

My dad gave the powder to me. It was stored out in his barn, in an unpluged refrigerator for 28 years.

Couldn't tell it was any different than new powder.

Headhunter

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Im shooting a can of Hodgdons FFF from 1973 right now. Still works as good as any of the new stuff I have does

 

[PvtC]

Friend at work gave me a pound of Dupont FFg in a heavily corroded can. It was found in his Grampa's outdoor shed. Been filling paper cartridge noise makers with it for reenactment. Pours fine. Ignites reliably.

 

[jarrowood]

If you are not going to shoot it you can send it my way. I will even pay the shipping cost.