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Need sum edjumikation.

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I posted last week that I bought a Navy Pietta .44 1861 navy in .44, likely unfired.
Someone mentioned that if'n 'twer a "Navy Colt" Navy, t'would be a .36, not a .44.
I paid no never mind as I wanted it no matter who it's parents were or it's ethnicity :what:.
Anyway, some light research on my part reveals the "Navy" was an 1860 NOT an 1861, and it were a .36 NOT a .44.
I don't have the critter yet, still in route, but if it is a .44 then it isn't an 1861 navy?
Might it be a replica of a .1861 navy, but bored .44 for the
'Merkin market?
Got any e-resources so i kin looks it up fer'a proper edjamikation?
I want it fer a shooter to go along with me Zouave to take on me hysterical trekking this Feb.
 
For the most part, the original Colts were .36 cal in the "Navy" and "Police" models (except the .31 cal Pocket Police), and..44 cal in the "Army" models. Pietta must have had an overstock on .44" tubes, 'cause they started turning out repros in .44 without regard to what the originals were. Almost every 1858 Remington made in the last 30 years is actually a 1863 version with the notch between the nipples. Poetic license I guess.
 
Army models were always .44 cal Maxi,

Navys were always .36, best gun ever designed for the human hand!

The "police revolvers often had only 5 shot cylenders, not always though.

They were .36 cal built on the .31 frame with a step cut and a rebated cylender.

The dragoons were .44 and built in the style that we now call "navy"

Your gun will be a cross between the .36 stepped frame and rebated cylender, the caliber and barrel shape of the dragoon. No such gun ever existed, if that really matters to you.

The 1860 army was .44 built on the .36 frame, a step was cut and a rebated cylender used to accept the .44 ball, with the streamlined barrel and creeping loading lever.

I have a couple of these nonexestant guns, they make good shooters!

:m2c:
 
 
Ok here we go. Don't know how ya spect ta gets edjumacated here abouts though. :: First off there were the Colt Patterson. Good little gun but a pain in the butt to reload. No loading lever ya know. Then we gots the Walker Colt, big bruiser of a handgun, but prone to blow up, what with the heavy loads and mild steel. Then along comes the well balanced, nice little '51 Navy. .36 cal, 6 shots, nice gun, but lacking some in power. So 'OL Sam brings out the 1860 ARMY. It is a .44 cal. Well balanced, but some think not as well as the NAVY. Then along comes the 1861 NAVY. It is a sleek, round barreled, like the 1860 ARMY, and some think the best revolver Colt ever made. But to edjumacate ya, the '51 NAVIES were originally .36 cal. The '60 ARMY was a .44 cal. And the '61 NAVIES were .36 cal. Now days some manufacturers have started making the .51 NAVY in .44 cal instead of the original .36 cal. May be because some people like the looks and feel of the '51, but the caliber of the '60 ARMY. Hope this edjuamates ya plenty nuff. ::
 
Man, yus guz is alright. I don't care what musketman says about yee! :crackup:
Many thanks. thanks,thanks,thanks,thanks,thanks,thanks,,thanks,etc ::
I don't care how hysterically accurate it ain't. It looks good 'nuff to me.
So I guess then it could be a replica of an 1861 Navy yet be bored to .44.
Letcha know when it gets here. :thumbsup:
 
I haven't seen any '61 Navy repos in .44 cal., only '51 Navies. Let us know if it has a round or octagon barrel. Octagon would be a '51.
 
I seem to recall that the 1860 has an 8" bbl. & the '61 has a 7-1/2" bbl. If that be so, ye may be able to ken which it air.
 
Colt Navy 1851 .36 and Italian Navy 1971 .44

Brass??? :what:

navy44.jpg
 
To all you wonderfully helpful people, a great big THANKS.
It came today. Looks unfired, is verrrrry tight, no end shake, no cylinder slop. no cylinder scoring at all.
Now I really need help. I haven't shot one of these open top revovlers in over 30 years.
What is the sequence? How do you get the cylinder out?
What loads? She has a nice color case hardened frame, brass GRIP frame, nice grips, great bluing, and in case your wondering I paid a hundred bucks for it. Good 'nuff deal I think.
She is marked "Navy Arms" and LLI Pietta.
Barrel is 8" long, octagon, tiny bead like front sight and .44 caliber.
The wedge comes out very hard, the cylinder must be tapped off the...the....the..., whatever that round thing it rotates on is called, with a rubber mallet,it fits that tight. Is that too tight? Could I polish this with 400 to 600 grit paper? Just enough to make the cylinder slide off more easily.
I'm guessing with those small sights, the notch in the hammer is small too, this is more a "point and shoot" weapon.
I'm rather surprised how well it fits the hand, how graceful it is and it's smaller than I expected.
If you all could give me a 'blow by blow' on loading and disassembly I'd appreciate it.
I'm sure loading is just like the Remington '58 I'm more familiar with.
She's an amazingly well fitted revolver. We'll see how she stand up to maxi's infamous MAGNUM loads of 3fg Swiss. :what:
Just kidding, 20 grains of 3fg Swiss is plenty in this open top pistol.
Just thort of 'nuther comment. She has an octagon barrel, is .44, but has the "NAVY" scene on the cylinder so from what I've learned here it's NOT an 1861, but an 1851. Right?
The Navy scrolling must be out of place then?
 
Maxi,

Is the cylinder pin clean and free of any left over burnt powder build up? Your cylinder should only be difficult to remove if it is fouled with burnt powder build up which will happen.

If this is the case with the cylinder pin, after cleaning, greese the pin with some sort of lube that will stay... I like to use Hodgdon Spit Ball, (don't know if they still make it)?

There should be about a 1/64th gap between the face of the cylinder and the barrel when the hammer is resting on an empty chamber. When the revovler is bought to half cock this gap will close yet leave enough room for you to rotate the cylinder easily for loading. When it is bought to full cock the gap will close tighter, then reappear after the revolver is discharged. You may need to tap your wedge out a bit...

I seldom will aim my open top revolver's, (mine are .36 Caliber). They are better suited for pointing. They were developed with the cavalry in mind and firing from horseback. Not that Hickock and thousands more didn't make use of them a'foot...

As for loads? I use a paper cartridge in my revolver's with 28 grains of 3fg Goex under a .454 ball... These are 1858 .44 Remington Replica's however, but the same should apply. I never felt I gained that much by using any greater load of powder. I also carry spare cylinders.

Hope this helps out. I wouldn't start polishing the cylinder pin until you check and make sure it is completely free of burnt powder, or maybe even a nick. I always felt Navy Arms endorsed a good product, but I haven't delt with them in twenty plus years... :m2c:
 
Maxi, do you have it on half cock when you remove the cylinder? If not, the hand may be why it is hard to get off. It needs to be on half cock so the cylinder is free to rotate before removing the cylinder. Does it rotate freely on the cylinedr pin when it is assembled and you cock it? If so, i wouldn't start messing with anything. Put some grease on the grooves in the cylinder pin. Bearing grease will work. Sounds like you have an 1851 Navy copy because of the octagon barrel. The barrel should be 7 1/2" long though. The naval battle scene is right though. I think you will find that if you use the sights it will shoot 12-18 inches high. This seems to be normal with all of them. They do point shoot well though. I think you will enjoy shooting it. They can be a real ball to shoot. ::
 
Ohio Joe. The revolver appears unfired. There is no crud anywhere. A burr perhaps. I'll check.
Both my other Pietta's are '58 Remington clones and I also carry an extra cylinder, the original 'speed' loader.
After seeing the replies here and searching the web for information I'll conclude that this Pietta is NOT an 1861 as advertized, but an 1851, albiet in .44, not .36.
The octagon barrel is the give away here, 51's were octagon, 61's were round. Also I think the 51's had a smaller bead like front site, the 61's a small blade,
The '51's were not .44 caliber, but .36.
This then is not a true replica of a '51 Colt, but close enough to suit me. I prefer the .44 caliber. Bigger IS better and besides, I have .451 and .454 balls and no .375's. ::
 
Maxi,

I also wonder if the cylinder pin may be bent in a downward possition, causing the cylinder to get hung up on the bottom of the frame when removing?

Two ways that I know of to check this is; 1. Run a dowel the same size as the bore down the barrel and into the cylinder and see if it gets hung up on the face of the cylinder? You'll have to do this on full cock. 2. Does the cylinder show any wear at all on the front bottom face?
 
Joe the thing does not appear bent. I think the tolerances are just tight.
I shot it and it's a shooter, groups at 25 yards are 'acceptable', that is I know it's not set up as a target revolver, it's a fighting tool. Groups run about 5" offhand the rear notch is way too small for sighting.
Also it shoots about 14" high with that tiny front 'bead post'.
Now the question is...can I install a higher 'post'? That hammer appears to be hard steel. Can I take a 3 cornered file and open/deeping the notch a bit?
I shot it with 30 grains Swiss 3fg. I think that's a bit stout for this revolver. Perhaps 20 grains of Swiss or 25 grains of Schuetzen or Elephant would be better and easier on the gun.

Robin G Hewitt: Thanks so much for the pictures you posted.
I determined the thing is more an 1851 but in .44.
That pic of the original you posted...is that yours?
Must be wonderful to have an original.

'Nuther point of interest. I wiped the thing in Stumlkillers lube and used it for topping the ball. That lube is awesome as a metal protectant.
I left the revolver uncleaned, watching for corrosion of any kind. There is NONE.
Partly because of the excellent Swiss powder and the excellent properties of Stumpy's lube with the Castor oil base.
Of course I'll clean it thoroughly today.
What a wonder site this is.
....did I mention I'm better now?
Better living through chemistry.
PROZAC... the final solution! :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
 
Maxi, yes you can have a taller front post installed, and yes you can take a small 3 corner file to the hammer notch. I have filed the notch in all of the Colt copies i've had. The notch they come with is way too small for sighting with my old eyes.
 
Maxi,

Rebel has the question's covered... Now, did the cylinder come off any easier the second time around? If not I don't think I'd worry about it. With use, things may loosen up a bit.

They use to say that you could shake a Colt's revolver in your hand and hear it rattle with all the loose fitting parts. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I heard one time... I also heard that all Colt's revolvers shot high and left, even their 1873 Peacemaker.
 
This one shoots about dead on for windage, but 14" high.
I've only fired a couple cylinders full so she's still real tight. I'd prefer this to one that rattles when shaken. :thumbsup:
 
Maxiball,
Cap and ball pistols are great arent they? I have a Uberti steel frame and a Navy arms brass frame 1851. The brass frame is out of time due to loading it too heavy. The steel frame pistols are so much better than the brass frames and are more forgiving if you load them too hot. I had to file the retainer slot on my steel frame 1851 because I wanted to be able to strip the pistol down without using a hammer and drift. File the slot on the front of the cylinder pin. Be careful you dont wont it too loose. Mine is still tight but I can strip it down by hand.
I use high-temp axle grease to lube the cylinder pin. A little goes a long way. I tried crisco and other muzzleloading lubes on the pin and they melt away when the cylinder gets hot. You can tell when the pin needs lubricating when it becomes difficult to cock and even acts like it is out of time. It seems the spent caps start jamming it when the pin is dirty. Since I started using axle grease these problems have ceased. It seems when the lube melts away black powder fouling takes its place.
The Confederacy liked the 1851 design and some companies in the South made copies durring the Civil War. Most were clones of the 1851 and most were brass framed. A company in Texas made a 1851 clone with an iron frame in 44 cal. I read an article on the web about one of these pistols a few years back. It stated only 2 are known to exist today. An 1851 Navy style pistol in 44 caliber did exist back then.
 
Thanks for the information on the 1851!
I use Stumpkillers Lube for the cylinder pin, and for a variety of things.
It's one or two oz. melted beeswax with 4 oz. castor oil (Wal-mart or any drug store) and an oz. of Murphy's Oil Soap.
The Murphy's acts to bind the other two ingredients togther.
Castor oil is a fine metal protectant being found in the best racing oils.
I use it for patch, over ball, and bullet lube and a protectant for metal.
My 1851 has a brass grip frame, but case hardened metal frame.
Yes the b.p. relover is fun and inexpensive to shoot.
 

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