Need Help Determining Musket Based on Cock

[RevWarFan]

Hi.

This may be a long shot, particularly based on its condition, but I’m hoping someone will be able to identify the model of musket that this cock came from. It's approximately 4" tall and 1.5" wide. I can provide more pics or more precise measurements, if necessary. It's also helpful if you can tell me any muskets from that time period that it definitely can't be (and why).

A friend of mine dug it up in what was the campsite of the British 74th regiment in Castine, Maine. The 74th was at Castine during the American Revolution between 1779 and 1784. If you’re not familiar with the Penobscot Expedition, it’s fascinating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penobscot_Expedition

Thanks in advance for any information.

 

[ppg1949]

Very interesting story. It reminds us that the war for independence was difficult for our side and did not always go well for our troops and sailors. Thanks for sharing.

 

[rich pierce]

The form of the top jaw, which rides the spur like it’s a rail, is most common on early English locks of utilitarian quality (not finer guns), though revived later for the third model Brown Bess (I think).

 

[FlinterNick]

Hi.

This may be a long shot, particularly based on its condition, but I’m hoping someone will be able to identify the model of musket that this cock came from. It's approximately 4" tall and 1.5" wide. I can provide more pics or more precise measurements, if necessary. It's also helpful if you can tell me any muskets from that time period that it definitely can't be (and why).

A friend of mine dug it up in what was the campsite of the British 74th regiment in Castine, Maine. The 74th was at Castine during the American Revolution between 1779 and 1784. If you’re not familiar with the Penobscot Expedition, it’s fascinating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penobscot_Expedition

Thanks in advance for any information.

View attachment 296263
View attachment 296264

Second model brown bess, 1777 lock.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Nick may have it but I am going to suggest a later pattern 1809 in which the double throat has corroded away. I base that on the fact that the top of the spur has no notch, the top jaw screw fits very tightly against the spur, and the jaws look smaller that the earlier patterns.

dave

 

[FlinterNick]

Hi,
Nick may have it but I am going to suggest a later pattern 1809 in which the double throat has corroded away. I base that on the fact that the top of the spur has no notch, the top jaw screw fits very tightly against the spur, and the jaws look smaller that the earlier patterns.

dave

This is what i was looking at, i thought maybe the surface was calcified / oxidized.

 

[RevWarFan]

Here's the opposite side from the area Nick highlighted. It looks to me like there could be a bit of a notch there. Of course, I want Nick's answer to be correct because it's the most logical based on the time period that the 74th regiment was present in Castine. Also, I checked another source that says the regiment was recruited beginning in December 1777 and received their arms and uniforms in April 1778 before setting sail for North America. By the way, I don't think mine has a slot in the top of the part with the hole drilled through it as I'm seeing in some photos on the internet of Second Pattern 1777 muskets.

 

[FlinterNick]

Here's the opposite side from the area Nick highlighted. It looks to me like there could be a bit of a notch there. Of course, I want Nick's answer to be correct because it's the most logical based on the time period that the 74th regiment was present in Castine. Also, I checked another source that says the regiment was recruited beginning in December 1777 and received their arms and uniforms in April 1778 before setting sail for North America. By the way, I don't think mine has a slot in the top of the part with the hole drilled through it as I'm seeing in some photos on the internet of Second Pattern 1777 muskets.

View attachment 296481

Looks like the bottom jaw has a depression / hole which is commonly seen in some third model style locks with goose necks and a notched upper post.

I’m. Not totally certain the depression feature was on second model cocks, it’s possible they were used on sea service / marine muskets with the smaller 1777 locks.

 

[RevWarFan]

I found this example of a Second Model 1777 that looks like it has the depression as well. You can zoom in on the third photo. It's hard to find photos that don't include a flint blocking the view of the inside of the jaws.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...ent-british-short-land-1777-brown-bess-musket

 

[FlinterNick]

I found this example of a Second Model 1777 that looks like it has the depression as well. You can zoom in on the third photo. It's hard to find photos that don't include a flint blocking the view of the inside of the jaws.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...ent-british-short-land-1777-brown-bess-musket

Great research !

The Smaller 1777 lock and some Liege Brown Bess Locks had the depression in the bottom jaw, some did and some didn’t.

 

[RevWarFan]

The more I look at mine vs. the Rock Island Auction one, the more similarity I think I see.

So it sounds like we've settled on the Second Model, 1777 Lock as the most likely answer, correct?

Thank you so much for your help identifying this! I greatly appreciate it.

 

[Thagomizer]

Have you done anything to preserve this artifact?
Often they deteriorate quickly once exposed.
Neat find!

 

[RevWarFan]

It was actually dug up years ago and it doesn't look to me like he did anything to it to preserve it. I recently acquired it from him - should I be doing anything to it or is the fact that it doesn't seem to have deteriorated since it was dug enough confidence that nothing more needs to be done.

 

[Thagomizer]

I have a bunch of similar artifacts and the prevailing knowledge was to dip them in hot wax to prevent oxidation. Yours seems to be the exception as it looks good.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I agree it is a pattern 1777 based on your latest photos. I think that is definitely a notch in the spur. Students of Brown Besses do not refer to them as models any more. That was an artifact of early 20th century collectors before there was any extensive research on patterns and changes made to the musket. The British never referred to them as models and the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd model designations obscure many of the pattern changes made within models. Your flintcock is likely from a British pattern 1777 short land King's musket.

dave

 

[RevWarFan]

Thanks Dave!