My first Flint Lock rifle musket A Charleville 1766 Pedersoli

[PluggedNickel]

I don't think the flash guards serve any purpose, other than getting in the way. I think they are for re-enactors who stand close together in a line and fire side by side, in which case the gas from the touch hole peppers the guy next to you with burning powder, and the guy on your left peppers you. Unless someone is going to stand next to you, on your right when you fire it, I think a flash guard will just make that beautiful lock look ugly. But hey, you might like it, and say: "That Rat is nutz!" I've always wanted a Charelville, but my Bess has served me well. Still, I am jealous!

Here's a pic of the flame and brimstone, fury and fire my Jeager belches out the touch hole. !!!! But when I fire a flintlock, I'm not even aware of the flash. All I see are my sights.View attachment 761

Love that photo of yours. I see you were in armor in the Army. I was a Gunfire Control Technition in the Navy, about a half century ago. Got to shoot the big 8” guns on USS Newport News CA-148. Talk about some muzzle flash on night shoots!

 

[Rat]

Old signature line, my son and daughter in law are both Army, she retired, and my son was in the 1st Armor at the time. Now he's full time National Guard. And my dad was Army, and my grandfather Canadian Army. Oh man those naval guns are too much, super awesome. Since we are in flintlock rifles, here's my Jeager.

 

[PluggedNickel]

My Charleville finally got here last Thursday. Our adult daughter went into the hospital that same day, so things have been pushed back a bit. She is home now and doing well, she is a nurse, and will return to work tomorrow. We all had a bit of a scare out of it, but it turned out to be the lesser of possible problems. I did get a chance late last night to run some old tow wrapped on a .58 cal worm down the bore, there was thick oil, and some residue from them testing for spark. You can see the mark on the frizzen where the flint hit. I haven't had much time with it yet, other than to wipe it down and run the tow trough the bore. It sure is beautiful though, nice wood too! Very bright polished stainless steel. I put a buff sling I purchased from Dixie on it. I am amazed at how well it balances to be such a heavy gun, maybe that is why some have said David Pedersoli's Charlevilles have thinner barrels than the originals, the steel is much better for sure, and though the dimensions may not be historical, I am well pleased with this musket. If it would mean adding weight to the rifle, I prefer the barrel that is on it. The barrels back in the day were all hand forged IIRC? Anyway, for sure they would have had to be thicker, heavier. The lock is polished, cocks smooth, locks solid in half and full cock. Hammer pulls back smooth with no noticeable grittiness, and is lighter than I expected. Without a doubt, this is the nicest black powder piece that I own. Wood to metal fit is tight at transitions. Pedersoli has some real craftsmen working for them. I know a lot of the parts are CNC machined on these modern reproductions (I couldn't afford one if they weren't, probably), but there still has to be some hand fitting and in-letting to get such perfection! My cheek weld has my eye in line with the front sight. When I take the smoothie down to clean I will inspect the lock for any areas that may need polishing, smoothing. As it is now I'm not the least hesitant to shoot it, as is. I don't know if they jewel the locks or not. That may not be historically correct either, but it does add some class even if it is on the inside, also aids in lubrication staying put.
Again, I thought it would be much more weight forward heavy than it is. The flint was already mounted and appears to be hitting the frizzen in the sweet spot. I had read that the non-firing guns made in India, in addition to not being able to order spare parts, also have very soft frizzens that have to be hardened before you'll get good sparks. I have a internet friend that has a Musketoon made in India, he did a lot of work to it to get it to function properly. He is pleased with it, and proud of the work he did. He had to modify the cock to get the flint at the right angle as well. He has a web site where he posted all the work he did.
I don't have any thing against the India made guns. Everyone hasn't the skill, tools, time, drive or desire to build a rifle, and others are on a limited budget and cannot afford a $1,500 +- Pedersoli. I'm happy for anyone who can join us in the fun of shooting black powder. If they are knowledgeable, safe, and having fun, I say welcome to the brotherhood, and please share any insight you have with me. If our sport is to grow we need to encourage and look out for one another, if there are pitfalls to be warned of for sure share them and always promote safety.
I welcome your constructive thoughts. Oh, one last afterthought the flint appears to be black English? French style. I have two German white flints I purchased from Jedediah Star or Dixie. If the Pedersoli flints last and continue to spark well, I may stay with them or their source.
Next Sons of the American Revolution meeting, the Charleville is going with us! Lots of Bessie shooters in our Chapter.
We are off to Lafayette, IN next weekend to attend the baptism of my new born great nephew. Best regards to all.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Old signature line, my son and daughter in law are both Army, she retired, and my son was in the 1st Armor at the time. Now he's full time National Guard. And my dad was Army, and my grandfather Canadian Army. Oh man those naval guns are too much, super awesome. Since we are in flintlock rifles, here's my Jeager.View attachment 800

That Jeager is beautiful! Thanks for sharing the picture. Keep them coming.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Those Naval guns didn't help my hearing any late in life. We had on sound powered headphones, but other wise no hearing protection other than our hands. An 8" broad side with all three, 3 barrel turrets would actually push the ship sideways. The 8 inch guns on a heavy cruiser were much faster to shoot than the 16" on battleships, loaded via hydraulic hoists and rams as compared to hand loaded bags of powder on the battleships. An 8" powder casing was of course 8" diameter and looked like a huge brass shotgun
shell about four foot tall. The projectiles were 360 pounds. Night shoots were always one heck of a light show!

 

[rdlowe]

Nickel, in case you're interested in making some military-style paper cartridges for your musket check out Frankford Arsenal. They sell a kit with everything but the powder. I bought one for my Charleville and one for my Bess as well. I won't order more of them now that I know how easy it is to make my own stuff but it was a good way to learn for a beginner.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Making the paper cartridges are easy once you have the paper selected and a 3/4" dowel rod about 6" long.

Since pictures contain more information than I can reasonable convey in text, I'll post some pictures I made to explain making paper cartridges. I'll leave it to you to search for the proper paper. Hint: rag paper is the best as it is stronger than other papers for the thickness and less likely to smolder after firing.

Take that dowel rod and spend some time with sandpaper to reduce the diameter of the dowel so that when you have it wrapped with paper, the cartridge will just slide into the bore of your musket.

When the ball is in the tube and either twisted or tied off, it can be dipped in a lube. I like the olive oil 7 parts and one part bee's wax melted in a double boiler Just dip the ball. I have found that I can use an unlubricated cartridge and just dampen the paper around the ball just before loading by spitting on it.

For the Bess I use the dipper to scoop 4 drams of coarse powder to pour into the cartridge.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Thanks so much for the tips on paper cartridges for the Charleville! The pictures are awesome! I took a look at the pan on my musket. It will need to be polished for sure. Luckily I have what I need to do it, and it looks like plenty of time this winter. I will post when I get the results of hammer spring, and trigger tests. Pan spring is very stiff. I will measure it as well.
There is a source for paper cartridges out there. They are more expensive than roll your own of course.
We are going out of state tomorrow. You can bet that 3/4” dowel rod is at the top of my shopping list right now.

Nickel, in case you're interested in making some military-style paper cartridges for your musket check out Frankford Arsenal. They sell a kit with everything but the powder. I bought one for my Charleville and one for my Bess as well. I won't order more of them now that I know how easy it is to make my own stuff but it was a good way to learn for a beginner.

I will check out the Frankfort Arsenal kits as well.
I’m so glad I found this forum. I was prepared to boldly load and fire my first Flintlock. I thought how hard can it be right? Boy, did I have a lot to learn, and thankfully, most of it I won’t have to learn the hard way now!
I have a book on making paper cartridges, IIRC it lists several sources of paper. You guys are the best! My wife asks what are you reading now?Oh yes, she knows I’m on a mission now! She is the one who told me to get the Pedersoli, instead of the one made in India and imported to Canada, it requiring a lot of work, including drilling the vent hole, hardening frizzen. Not that there is anything wrong with owning one, what put me off most about them is the lack of replacement parts. My friend John did a great job on his India made Musketoon. He is rightfully proud of it too. It took a lot of work to make it a dependable, and enjoyable shooter. A lot more than just drilling a vent hole for sure. He had to do work on the cock as well to get the right angle on his flints for good spark and flint longevity! He learned a lot along the way, and like you folks shared what he learned with others via his web site. Do a google search for “geojohn” if you would like to see the challenges his Musketoon gave him, and how he fixed the short comings of the wall hanger lookie, to make it a joy to shoot, and own.

 

[Juice Jaws]

I purchased it from Jedediah Star online this afternoon. I should be here by Wednesday. I'm pretty stoked about it. I can dress up like my militia ancestors and reenact with my SAR Chapter, George Rogers Clark, Springfield, OH.
Anyone else have a Charleville? Pedersoli says .675" round ball, and .007 patch.
I'd like to hear what others use in Charleville and Brown Bess. What about flint size, how wide? I will probably use German flints.
Here are some Pedersoli factory pictures of it. I also ordered the nipple wrench, wood
mallet, and pan primer.

Send some photos of you shooting your musket. They are fun.

 

[PluggedNickel]

I will do that. Going out of state tomorrow. Things on the back burners right now. I still have to get balls, and patches, .69" cleaning jag. I can shoot the musket with just some undersized balls and some old tow I've got, a bit on top of powder, a bit to hold the ball. Getting the right size ball and patch will take more effort.
I'm going to take main spring reading with trigger gauge, ditto frizzen, and trigger. And I want to polish the pan. I've got a gum rubber art eraser coming to dry fire and get readings.
I may make a hard wood (flint blank) and use the advice in the how to Articles on "what size flints?" to determine max and min size (length of flints) the 1766 Charleville Pedersoli came with lead cramp on the flint. I like that. Only way to go per Paul V's great article. I will probably put a light shine on the bore prior to shooting, before gunk starts getting embedded in the steel. I've had great success with my Cowboy Action shotguns doing that. Clean up so much easier! I've got all I need to do that, just taking the time, and being in the frame of mind to do it. I don't get in a hurry when doing these tune ups.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thanks so much for the tips on paper cartridges for the Charleville! The pictures are awesome! I took a look at the pan on my musket. It will need to be polished for sure. Luckily I have what I need to do it, and it looks like plenty of time this winter. I will post when I get the results of hammer spring, and trigger tests. Pan spring is very stiff. I will measure it as well.
There is a source for paper cartridges out there. They are more expensive than roll your own of course.
We are going out of state tomorrow. You can bet that 3/4” dowel rod is at the top of my shopping list right now.

That 3/4" (0.750") dowel is quite oversized for your Charleville. That bore is 0.690". You will have to take off quite a bit of wood to get the forming dowel to the correct size. I would recommend cutting a 7 or 8 inch section off. Drive a wood screw part way into one end and cut off the head of the screw. You can chuck the end of the screw into an electric drill and then use the drill and coarse sandpaper or files to bring the dowel to size. My pictures show how a British cartridge is made. The French cartridge is twisted in the tail rather than folded.

 

[nit wit]

You will probably have to dish out the stock so you can get you face lower. I have gone to using 1F with my Bess and my accuracy has improved! I prime with 3F. For hunting turkey make some shot tubes out of grocery bags, Paper!!
Have fun
Nit Wit

 

[Artificer]

That 3/4" (0.750") dowel is quite oversized for your Charleville. That bore is 0.690". You will have to take off quite a bit of wood to get the forming dowel to the correct size. I would recommend cutting a 7 or 8 inch section off. Drive a wood screw part way into one end and cut off the head of the screw. You can chuck the end of the screw into an electric drill and then use the drill and coarse sandpaper or files to bring the dowel to size. My pictures show how a British cartridge is made. The French cartridge is twisted in the tail rather than folded.

Maybe easier/better is to just get a 5/8" dowel at around .625 inch diameter and then the OP would not have to do any sanding/turning on the diameter of the dowel. I know not every hardware store carries that size, but some do. Also a Woodcraft store and some Craft Stores may/will have that diameter of dowel. (I know because I have bought some in that size not too long ago.) That way, you don't have to worry about the wound paper cartridge not fitting in the bore, either.

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

Using the 5/8" dowel is great for using a powder cartridge and separately loading the ball and a card to hold it in place. I will use the 5/8" dowel for blank loads as there is no way to put a 0.715" ball in 0.625" cylinder. The 5/8" powder cartridges also fit in the 7/8" diameter cartridge blocks so easily.

The 5/8" dowel is the starting form for making a 20 gauge cartridge. Of course that former will need to be turned down to fit the cartridge in the 20 gauge bore. The dowel wrapped in paper will be to large for easy use in a 20 gauge gun.

Also the 3/4" former is too large for a true 12 gauge (0.729) shotgun.

 

[Rat]

You will probably have to dish out the stock so you can get you face lower. I have gone to using 1F with my Bess and my accuracy has improved! I prime with 3F. For hunting turkey make some shot tubes out of grocery bags, Paper!!
Have fun
Nit Wit

Wow! Same here...on the grocery bags. Great cartridge material. Both the big bags, and the sammich bags, just depending. I also use grocery bag "shot tubes" for turkey hunting with my Bess. They really work great....really fast way to reload bird shot. And, even though ffg Swiss might be cleaner burning, I've gone to fg in my Bess too, just "seems" to like it better.

 

[Artificer]

Using the 5/8" dowel is great for using a powder cartridge and separately loading the ball and a card to hold it in place. I will use the 5/8" dowel for blank loads as there is no way to put a 0.715" ball in 0.625" cylinder. The 5/8" powder cartridges also fit in the 7/8" diameter cartridge blocks so easily.

The 5/8" dowel is the starting form for making a 20 gauge cartridge. Of course that former will need to be turned down to fit the cartridge in the 20 gauge bore. The dowel wrapped in paper will be to large for easy use in a 20 gauge gun.

Also the 3/4" former is too large for a true 12 gauge (0.729) shotgun.

Yes, if one doesn't roll the paper with the ball in the depression on the former, then making a cylinder with a 5/8" dowel is going to be too small. We used the Elmer's School "glue sticks" for the glue as it didn't squoosh out as much. We always put the ball in place, held it there with a pinky finger and wrapped the paper around the former with the ball in place. The end of the paper over the ball could be tied with string or the paper glued together.
https://www.target.com/p/elmer-s-174-washable-glue-sticks-disappearing-purple-6ct/-/A-17088992

Your way of making the glued paper cylinder and then adding the ball does require a former slightly larger than the ball size.

Gus

 

[Britsmoothy]

You could always build the former up with duct tape or something.

 

[Rat]

You could always build the former up with duct tape or something.

That's what I do, using any old dowel, marker pen, or anything else that is round. Masking tape works best, and you can get it in all different widths.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Well thanks for the tips everyone! Since I have a drill press I was already planning on the wood screw, cut off head, sand route. I’ve had good luck using a steel block as back up for the paper or cloth, and have had very concentric and true, flat surfaces. Works well even with metals. Sand and mic, sand and mic. I finish with hand sanding. I’ve also got belt, disc sanders, both bench top and hand held.
My eye lines up perfect with the front sight with a cheek weld on the factory stock. I will see how I am accuracy wise. I’m pretty thin under my checks. I suspect those active folks back when we’re pretty lean too!
I had considered the 5/8” dowel as well. I’ve got plenty of time to tinker on this project though, and once I start something I tend to stay with it.
With Pritchett Bullets you load the powder, then the ball goes in with paper on top, is that how your doing it with lead balls?

 

[Grenadier1758]

I only use round ball when I shoot my Long Land Pattern Musket.

When I load a cartridge with ball, I tear off the tail and pour in the powder (Measured at 4 drams or about 100 grains). I may put the paper end in my mouth to slightly dampen the paper around the ball. I don't do that if I have lubricated the ball with bee's wax and olive oil. I then push the paper wrapped ball with the paper cylinder first and ball on top forming a wad of paper with the ball having sufficient friction on the barrel to hold the ball in place. I keep a separate powder flask to prime the pan with the same grade of powder that I used in the cartridge. Works just fine in my Bess.