Musket grain question

[LongWalker]

I'm familiar with "musket grain", where the grain runs through the wrist parallel to the bore. There's a couple of ways to reduce the likelihood of a break with grain like that.

I recently received a stock that has musket grain, but when viewed from the top of the wrist, also has grain running diagonally across the wrist. Before I contact the manufacturer, is there a term to describe that (other than "a break looking for a place to happen")?

 

[James Kibler]

It can be very tricky to accurately assess the grain direction in all but a quarter sawn stock. Cathedral growth ring pattern can be very deceptive. Best to show a picture.

Jim

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Before I contact the manufacturer

Calling God perhaps?

 

[64Springer]

So many gremlins that don't exist, so little time.

 

[LongWalker]

Calling God perhaps?

Judging by the threats I've received from fanboys for asking questions before ordering the rifle, some folks do seen to think the manufacturer is closely related to a Higher Power.

64Springer, the only reason this is an issue is because the rifle will be used for introducing new shooters to flintlocks. I've already had the wrist of one rifle broken--twice!--by newbies, and would prefer to avoid it.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Shouldn't be a problem there.

 

[64Springer]

The cathedral grain looks like it's on one side with the grain running parallel to the stock on the other side.

If the cathedral grain had spires on one side and they immediately ran across the wrist to spires on the other side, I might be concerned.

That's not the case here.

 

[oldwood]

Sawmill term for a board with stacked grain longways threw the board , with board standing on the narrow edge ,is called "quarter sawed". All other grain configurations threw a board , are called "slab sawed". My choice of grain direction for a strong wrist , is "slab sawed. " Used to own a saw mill , and worked in the woods harvesting timber. The two terms above ,were just part of the jargon of wood sawing.

 

[LongWalker]

Sorry, meant to post the other side as well:

I probably wouldn't have been as concerned about it, but there are spots on the stock I can dent with a thumbnail. If this (the grain through the wrist) is something I don't need to worry about, I'll get started fixing a couple of other flaws and then get the rifle put together.

Oh, Oldwood--didn't see your post. I've worked in/been part-owner of a sawmill too, and worked as a cabinetmaker. Miss the cab shop most days, don't miss stacking 12/4 Q-sawn white oak!

 

[oldwood]

Interesting piece of wood you are using on you're stock. If it was from one of the river bottoms in Central Pa. , it would be called silver maple. Have always liked it , and sometimes it shows wide , interesting curl ,and stains up wonderfully with alcohol base stains. It is a light weight wood , which will render a light weight gun.

 

[LongWalker]

Interesting piece of wood you are using on you're stock. If it was from one of the river bottoms in Central Pa. , it would be called silver maple. Have always liked it , and sometimes it shows wide , interesting curl ,and stains up wonderfully with alcohol base stains. It is a light weight wood , which will render a light weight gun.

When it arrived yesterday, I opened the box in a dimly-lit garage: thought the stock was ash at first!

I'm pretty sure it is silver maple too: the grain, the streaks, the light-weight, all sort of give it away. I'll pull a sample from under the butt and have it tested, to satisfy my curiosity. I'd planned some incised carving and a violin-varnish finish for this rifle. Because of the wood, soft spots, etc, I'll probably skip the carving and use an asphaltum stain. I've got several friends stopping by this evening who all wanted to see it before I start (they have the same hesitation I had about ordering before seeing one)--I'll bounce some ideas off them while we're out in the shop.

 

[oldwood]

Hey LWalker..........Forgot one option. This stock is a perfect candidate for artificial striping , with India ink.

 

[James Kibler]

No, absolutely not a concern and not silver maple. We absolutely never use silver maple as a stock wood. The misinformation I’ve encountered online recently is pretty staggering. I would suggest you carry on!

 

[FlinterNick]

Ash stocks are good, I’d rate it as a good quality stock, not my first choice of wood. When it comes to maple I try to use hard maple or Birds Eye if i can find it.

A very under rated stock wood is hickory. Hickory was used on stocks in the late 18th century when walnut and cherry became a commodity due to the war of 1812. Hickory is tough and equally as hard providing a lot of good durability. Same with black locust, only draw back to black locust is the color needs to be dark or there will be a hint of yellow green in a light brown.

 

[oldwood]

If folks like heavy longrifle gunstocks , use oak , hickory , locust , beech , sycamore maple. If you would like to put a gun's weight in it's barrel ,for gunstocks , use maple walnut, english walnut, cherry , butter nut , or half a dozen other light strong woods. I'de rather put a gun's weight into a barrel,instead of heavy wood. Think about it.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

No, absolutely not a concern and not silver maple. We absolutely never use silver maple as a stock wood. The misinformation I’ve encountered online recently is pretty staggering. I would suggest you carry on!

It's been my experience here that this post will be ignored and the speculation and rambling by those with no experience will go on for pages.

 

[James Kibler]

Longwalker,

This wood is red maple and very typical of average red maple hardness. This is very carvable and I wouldn't say there are soft and hard spots, but rather a pretty homogeneous piece of wood. In fact, I would think this wood would carve pretty well. I remember the wood and am basing my opinion on lots of experience working maple and carving many stocks by hand.

As a general note, it would be great if customers would just ask us questions. We're not trying to pull something over on you. We are trying to make a product where the customer has absolutely the best chance of a good experience.

In addition, beware of opinions from those who really don't know. This can be very frustrating for us here at Kibler's Longrifles.

Oh, I would suggest using Iron nitrate on this stock, rather than asphaltum. I did stain a piece of this wood a while back and the iron nitrate looked great. I'm not sure the asphaltum will work out so well.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[alcessapiens]

Looks like a decent piece of maple to me. BP firearms, due to a longer sustained push rather than a center fire’s sharp shorter recoil (delta-v in physics terms) are a bit easier on wood. One of the loveliest flintlocks I’ve seen recently is a .58 with a very slim and gorgeous tiger maple stock. The guy’s had it 40 years and since the rifling is glassy slick (not worn just mirror polished ) it doesn’t like lighter loads. No problem with it whatsoever. We’re it me, I’d just go with it, you might be very, very pleased with how that’ll look and wear.

 

[LongWalker]

Longwalker,

This wood is red maple and very typical of average red maple hardness. This is very carvable and I wouldn't say there are soft and hard spots, but rather a pretty homogeneous piece of wood. In fact, I would think this wood would carve pretty well. I remember the wood and am basing my opinion on lots of experience working maple and carving many stocks by hand.

As a general note, it would be great if customers would just ask us questions. We're not trying to pull something over on you. We are trying to make a product where the customer has absolutely the best chance of a good experience.

In addition, beware of opinions from those who really don't know. This can be very frustrating for us here at Kibler's Longrifles.

Oh, I would suggest using Iron nitrate on this stock, rather than asphaltum. I did stain a piece of this wood a while back and the iron nitrate looked great. I'm not sure the asphaltum will work out so well.

Thanks,
Jim

Mr. Kibler-

I didn't contact you first because my attempts to ask questions prior to ordering were unsuccessful. I tried the phone about a year ago; due to my hearing loss I had to have someone call for me. I think whoever was on the other end thought it was some kids messing around, as we got hung up on twice. I received no reply to a couple of emails. I did read every page at Kiblerslongrifles.com, and didn't notice the terms "red maple" or "soft maple" anywhere. It is my fault for not knowing I wasn't ordering a sugar maple stock, but it isn't like I didn't try to find out before ordering. I would have been willing to wait, and to pay more, for the wood I was expecting.

I posted here (without identifying the maker) because when I did try again to contact you, I wanted to be able to correctly describe what I saw as a potential issue. My previous experience stocking longrifles has been from quarter-sawn planks, so I've not encountered this grain structure in the wrist. Between the grain structure in the wrist and the degree of mineral staining, I wondered if I had accidentally received a "second" (but remember, at that point I still thought the stock was sugar maple).

One of the fellows who stopped by last night worked for the FPL for about a decade and had some neat tricks up his sleeve. He did a ferrous sulfate test that showed the wood is definitely red maple (and I now have a blue spot in the barrel channel). He also brought a nifty doohickey to field-test hardness that indicated an estimate Janka hardness at different spots on the butt ranged from ~850 to ~1,000 (and now I have a few dents to steam out).

The consensus seems to be that I don't need to worry about the grain in the wrist (I didn't know). I've got dents to steam out, a crack to glue, and half a pin-knot to excise and patch. Then I can get this put together. What I previously characterized as "soft spots" won't affect function, just whether or not I carve the stock. I've not had satisfactory results carving wood that varies in hardness this much, but someone else might. I don't have much experience "blending in" mineral streaks, so I'll test both asphaltum and ferric nitrate in the barrel channel before staining the stock.

 

[64Springer]

Now I know why my TOTW Extra Fancy Kentucky pistol stock had a small blue dot on it.

I thought it was an inventory color code or something.

Learn something new from internet spats every day.