Large Siler Deluxe lock

[Dave Young]

Anyone have any experience with the large deluxe Siler lock? Good, Bad, So-So? Any better than the large Siler?

 

[roundball]

Anyone have any experience with the large deluxe Siler lock? Good, Bad, So-So? Any better than the large Siler?

The Chambers Deluxe Siler happens to be my prefered lock choice...have bought / used 3 of them on new builds, and had Jim Chambers upgrade a large siler that came on a used Dickert I bought, to a Deluxe Siler...powerful, strong sparking locks.

 

[Birddog6]

I like the Deluxe for a hunting rifle, because they will spark with about anything in them...... Cock hard, hit the frizzen hard. real hard, and they spark well.... :thumbsup:

As for flint life, IMHO about 1/2 the life as you can get out of the Large Siler, but still get 40-60 shots out of one on all I have used.

For a hunting rifle I like the Deluxe Siler, and for a target rifle I like the regular Siler.

You will get allot of opinions on them. Some like them hard hitting, some don't. Some just have to mess with the lock, regardless of what it is or who made it, no matter how good they work...... :idunno: Kinda like cars.. I have seen guys tear a perfectly good brand new carburator apart, cause they think they can improve it, even tho they have no idea what-so-ever of what they are working on or how it was engineered ...... :youcrazy: ha ha ha ! :rotf: You just have to laugh & go on...... :grin:

Keith Lisle

 

[hanshi]

Whatcha think, roundball? How's flint life on your deluxe Silers? I like what I hear about them just wondering if short flint life on one was just an anomaly.

 

[Birddog6]

Short flint life on one ? Who said that ? I have probably used at least 20 of them. :idunno:

And I don't consider 40 to 60 shots a short flint life, because the large Silers usually get 80 to over a hundred shots.

Keith Lisle

 

[roundball]

Whatcha think, roundball? How's flint life on your deluxe Silers? I like what I hear about them just wondering if short flint life on one was just an anomaly.

I've used 3 different Chambers deluxe silers so far on several range trips each, going through 40-50 shots each time.
Unless I'm sighting in / shooting groups at the range, I get lazy and don't bother taking the time doing any "preventive knapping" along the way...just shoot and shoot and may get one ker-latch per range session...knapp it and finish the range trip.
I clean them when I get home like I did with any Hawken flints, touch up the bevel edge with the diamond wheel, and reinstall it.

IMO, the deluxe siler is outstanding...'flint life' is not even a consideration, and not being bothered by trying to use a PC/HC type lock for a given ML, the Chambers deluxe silers are all I'll be using...have already bought a fourth one for the .45 Virginia Matt has in the queue.

 

[Dphar]

Anyone have any experience with the large deluxe Siler lock? Good, Bad, So-So? Any better than the large Siler?

If you need a Germanic lock any of the Silers as they come from Chambers are good.
But there are many good locks out there.
I use the lock the firearm design calls for.
Using a Siler on a 1840s plains rifle or 1815 English Sporting rifle or fowler just makes a silly looking gun.

Dan

 

[roundball]

Using a Siler on a 1840s plains rifle or 1815 English Sporting rifle or fowler just makes a silly looking gun.

His question was Deluxe Siler vs. Large Siler.

"...anyone have any experience with the large deluxe Siler lock? Good, Bad, So-So? Any better than the large Siler?..."[/quote]

 

[saber]

If you are talking about Jim Chambers lock it is one of the fast and best there is some may need stoneing and some do not

 

[hanshi]

Realistically, I suppose I get an average of 40-60 shots per flint. I've gotten close to 100 at the high end and a low of 3 at the bottom. Three of my rifles have Large Siler locks and I have no complaints whatsoever. They are really fine locks and give excellent service. My TVM fowler sports a Colonial Va. lock which is a very fine lock. They all give about the same flint life - I also have two small Siler locks on a small rifle and a pistol - and when I get a clack, little scraping on the flint edge with a knife gives me several more shots. By that time they're ready for a knapp.

Toni has helped me come up with my next rifle which will be an early Lancaster. My lock of choice for this gun will be the Chambers early Germanic, another big lock. I'm quite satisfied with all the locks I've used and get about the same flint life from them all. 40-60 shots sounds quite good to me. If that's what I can expect from a deluxe Siler, then that's excellent.

 

[Old Salt]

Anyone have any experience with the large deluxe Siler lock? Good, Bad, So-So? Any better than the large Siler?

:wink: I fondly named my deluxe Siler "rock crusher".

Of the three locks I have and shoot regularly it bashes flints the hardest. After spending hours tuning it, it is significantly better but is still hard on flints.

The other locks I have give me the same reliablility of ignition and better flint life.

Aside from the issue with flints, my own opinion is the cock is too far from the frizzen when at full cock.

Leo

 

[Larry Pletcher]

In a few weeks I may be able to give you an answer based on numbers. I have 3 Large Silers that were set up by different folks. They all spark beautifully and all have a VERY different feel to them. One has very stiff springs; one very mild. Two of the three began as deluxe Silers. the third began as a plain Siler but with many tuning steps included. That lock was rebuilt by Jim with deluxe Siler parts and a few "extras" thrown in.

I expect to time them all and see if there is a measurable difference between them. Without times on these locks I would be happy to have any one of the three in a gun.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[roundball]

Dale Johnson in Tennessee does the lock work for Jim Chambers...you might consider priority mailing your Deluxe Siler to him to set it up / tune it as it sounds like there might be a problem with it the way it's currently configured...you'll have it back in just a couple days...not a single one of mine are hard on flints.

(I use Tom Fuller 3/4"W x 7/8"L black english, bevel up)

 

[Vaino]

This is not a criticism of your testing at all seeing I don't know what you're trying to achieve, but the thought came to mind as to why you're not testing "out of the box" flintlocks? Most users don't tune their flintlocks and if the test locks have been tuned by experts, is the test relevant to guys who use untuned locks and does it offer any comparisons outside of who's the best lock mechanic? Appreciate your testing and always look forward to the results....Fred

 

[Larry Pletcher]

This is not a criticism of your testing at all seeing I don't know what you're trying to achieve, but the thought came to mind as to why you're not testing "out of the box" flintlocks? Most users don't tune their flintlocks and if the test locks have been tuned by experts, is the test relevant to guys who use untuned locks and does it offer any comparisons outside of who's the best lock mechanic? Appreciate your testing and always look forward to the results....Fred

Hi Fred,
If my goal was to compare a large Siler and a Deluxe Siler, I would have done exactly as you suggest. I didn't explain my purpose in this test and I should have. So often we hear that a lock should be tuned a certain way, springs need a certain tension or strength, frizzen-to-frizzen spring contact done a certain way, etc. We've all heard statements similar to this. The three locks that I have all function very well, but they all have a very different feel- if that makes sense.

Lock #1 -my old test bed lock. This lock has fired 2000+ times and needed an overhaul. Jim rebuilt it. I intend a before and after test. New springs are much stronger that before.

Lock #2 result of an experiment that Jim and I did with 2 cocks and 3 tumblers. This lock is the combination that we liked best. (This may have been the fore-runner of the Deluxe model.) Springs are strong. Cocking it feels like the break in a compound bow.

Lock #3 a reworked deluxe with "tiny" ball bearing races on the tumbler. Springs are milder. This lock is one of the smoooothest locks I've seen.

Obviously these locks won't tell much about box stock stuff. But, it will tell us if all the speculation we hear about the "secrets of lock tuning" is true. All the locks function and spark very well. My gut says that these locks are examples showing that locks can be set up very differently and function flawlessly. What they have in common may be the real "finding."

Regards,
Pletch

 

[colmoultrie]

Sounds interesting! I assume (I know all the old jokes about that, of course) that you've got a representative sample of untuned Large and Golden Age Silers to measure them against. Otherwise the contrarian could contend that if all three have similar results, it just shows that tuning doesn't actually do much, no matter who does it and how. Sounds silly, I know, but unless there is comparative data (which you likely already have from your tests), no one could be sure.

Btw., thank you for all your experimentation! I don't have the time or patience to do it myself, but I gladly follow the results. :hatsoff:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Sounds interesting! I assume (I know all the old jokes about that, of course) that you've got a representative sample of untuned Large and Golden Age Silers to measure them against. Otherwise the contrarian could contend that if all three have similar results, it just shows that tuning doesn't actually do much, no matter who does it and how. Sounds silly, I know, but unless there is comparative data (which you likely already have from your tests), no one could be sure.

Btw., thank you for all your experimentation! I don't have the time or patience to do it myself, but I gladly follow the results. :hatsoff:

Yah, I have files of test results over the years that include many large and small Silers, L&R, Davis, Haddaway, and many more. From that group I can pull out comparable locks to use as a base line. I didn't count but I probably have 20+ Silers to use as a control. Some tests were specialized and may not be useful, but they'll be plenty.

I also have the slo-motion of some of Jim's recent deluxe Silers that I can do frame counts and get times for.
Regards,
Pletch