Hi Tech black powder?

[Jaeger]

I was driving near Clare,Michigan recently and stopped in a very large gun/sporting goods store there because I thought for sure a store that size would carry black powder. First of all, I was astonished by the lack of knowledge of salespeople at the gun counter who sent me to the smokeless powder dept even though I specifically asked for BLACK POWDER, but that's another story and possible thread. When I finally found the "correct" section, I found a good variety of containers marked with FFG and FFFG, and some of them were good brand names, ie Hodgdon. I thought I had found what I was looking for until I started reading the fine print on the cans, where I saw phrases such as "non-corrosive", "contains no sulfur" "and "advanced technology substitute". The Hodgdon cans also read "can be used in flintlocks"! As soon as I saw "contains no sulfur", I balked....no sulfur? Not black powder! All of them were labeled "Explosive". I have a couple questions for forum members.Is this a NEW type of black powder substitute? I mean, beyond Pyrodex and some of the other stuff? Has anybody used something like this in a flintlock? Does it work? I really am just curious, because I am sticking to black powder if at all possible, and I don't intend to purchase this stuff. When I really pressed the store personnel, they finally told me that they don't carry real black powder because it has to be kept in a safe, records kept, etc. What say ye?

 

[ohio ramrod]

There may be a substitute that will work in flint locks but I haven't heard of it!. The reason they can sell "substitutes" with out the license and regulations that apply to black powder is the substitutes have a higher ignition temp :idunno:

 

I have a couple questions for forum members.Is this a NEW type of black powder substitute? I mean, beyond Pyrodex and some of the other stuff? Has anybody used something like this in a flintlock? Does it work?

Without knowing what you were looking at (name of product), it's hard to know what to tell you. If you knew the names, you could go to the company web site and read what it is.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I don't believe anything I cannot verify.

 

[biliff]

Hodgon makes both Pyrodex and 777. They state both can be used in flintlocks, but there's the fine print. From their website:

Flintlock: To insure proper ignition in flintlock systems, 5 grains of FFFFG priming powder should be placed into the bore prior to loading the main charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex. Consult the loading data in this brochure to determine the proper charge for the caliber firearm used and the chosen projectile. The main powder charge should be reduced by 5 grains to compensate for the addition of the priming powder. While holding the firearm vertically, slowly pour the measured charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex into the barrel. Seat the projectile firmly against the powder. Make certain that there is no airspace between the powder and the projectile. *See WARNING below.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Tripple 777 ad from a retailer


Product Information

HODGDON'S TRIPLE SEVEN MUZZLELOADING PROPELLANT makes clean up a breeze. Both your rifle and hands wash up with plain water, and the place where you did the work can be easily wiped down using just a damp paper towel. Triple Seven also produces the highest velocities of all granular muzzleloading propellants when compared by volume (see Comparison Chart below). An added bonus is that this enhanced velocity results in a flatter trajectory and greater down range energy. Triple Seven is sulfur odor-free and virtually odorless as a residue in the barrel. With this in mind, feel free to clean your rifle anywhere - even at the kitchen table - because Triple Seven will not leave that rotten egg smell behind. Triple Seven works with all styles and brands of projectiles which makes it easy to find a load and maintain accuracy.

I'm not cleaning anything with lead fouling/contamination at the kitchen table. I like my extra IQ points..even if I don't use them. :youcrazy:

 

[galamb]

Hodgdon owns:

Hodgdon, which markets smokeless powder and Pyrodex and 777 (black powder alternatives);

IMR, which markets smokeless powder;

Winchester Propellants, again, markets smokeless; and,

Goex, touted as the only "producer" of Black Powder in the US. So any "domestically produced" black powder (as opposed to "domestically packaged"), regardless of what label is on it could have only come from the Goex plant in Louisiana, because there is no other "domestic source".

If it was "real black" that you saw and had anything to do with Hodgdon, it would have been/should have been in a Goex can (unless the dealer is packing his own powder in left over cans).

If it was in a Hodgdon can/bottle/jar etc it was most probably a "substitute" black powder.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I think I heard that goex was switching cans for BP maybe thats what he saw.

 

[galamb]

Yes, I forget sometimes that you guys/gals are now getting your Goex in plastic bottles.

Should make it to Canada by 2050 :rotf:

 

[Patocazador]

Yes, I forget sometimes that you guys/gals are now getting your Goex in plastic bottles.

Should make it to Canada by 2050 :rotf:

What? You should have had it first. After all, you have plastic money already.

 

[Jaeger]

Bill: That's a lot of work, fuss and fooling around just to be able to use their "777" in a flintlock.....not worth it! As far as some manufacturers trying to sell BP shooters on eliminating the rotten egg smell and being able to clean your gun in the kitchen...what a joke! If the rotten egg smell and dirt of BP really bothers you that much, use a 30/06....

 

[azmntman]

I like the smell! Lasts a couple days in the car after you bring home a few dirty guns.

 

[Zonie]

Your first clue about the powder you saw on the shelf is, it was on the shelf.

Because of the lock up requirements imposed on all real black powder, the only thing they could legally put on the shelf would be an empty can that once held real black powder.

Several brands of synthetic black powder claim it can be used in flintlocks but they all say (in fine print or on their web site) the powder charge must have a starter load of real black powder poured down the barrel before loading their synthetic.

 

[coloradoclyde]

+2 on the smell of the real stuff

 

[Britsmoothy]

Tripple 777 ad from a retailer


Product Information

HODGDON'S TRIPLE SEVEN MUZZLELOADING PROPELLANT makes clean up a breeze. Both your rifle and hands wash up with plain water, and the place where you did the work can be easily wiped down using just a damp paper towel. Triple Seven also produces the highest velocities of all granular muzzleloading propellants when compared by volume (see Comparison Chart below). An added bonus is that this enhanced velocity results in a flatter trajectory and greater down range energy. Triple Seven is sulfur odor-free and virtually odorless as a residue in the barrel. With this in mind, feel free to clean your rifle anywhere - even at the kitchen table - because Triple Seven will not leave that rotten egg smell behind. Triple Seven works with all styles and brands of projectiles which makes it easy to find a load and maintain accuracy.

I'm not cleaning anything with lead fouling/contamination at the kitchen table. I like my extra IQ points..even if I don't use them. :youcrazy:

Why not? We dont mind breathing carcinogens from car exhausts. Aluminum and flourides in water.
Hoppes 9 is full of Benzine!

Lead is fine. Lead oxide not good!

 

[nhmoose]

777 is not Black Powder. Black works in FL it won't.

Sorry but REAL black may take time and mileage to find.
When you count the mileage the Haz-Mat fee is small. I am 3 hours from my distributor and a 140 mile round trip, I choose the Hax-mat fee most times. I do plan ahead so as to not run out.

 

[F.G. Ford]

You fellows in the USA are very fortunate, you can have real BP delivered to your door, and in good quantities.
Except in rare situations, why does everybody not use this method of purchasing real Black Powder.
The service charges are low, and yes hazmat charges are a pain, but the price of fuel, mileage, and time make it cheap to have it delivered.
I wish we could have that service here in "The Great White North"
Too bad there was no shooting buddy in Ogdensburg, N.Y. area to share powder costs. (HINT) :grin:
Fred

 

[Rifleman1776]

I choose the Hax-mat fee most times.

That has become a fact of life. It is no longer a higher cost for bp. Bp is just more expensive these days. We may not like it but you can't buy a new car for $3,000.00 anymore either. (BTW, that is what I paid for a new Plymouth when I got out of the Air Force in 1963)

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hell, I'm still buying new ( for me :hmm: ) cars, for $3000, and this is 2014.
Things are slower her in Canada
Tight Wad Fred :shocked2: