Dixie "Tennessee" question

[weirdjack]

I've been shooting a Dixie Gun Works "Tennessee" mountain rifle since I built it from a kit back in '78 or so. I am curious how far back this particular style of southern rifle goes; 1790's? 1780's? A search on the net has yielded me lots of fine photos, but nothing to date them. I see text references of southern mountain types in this general shape from 1780 on through the 1900's. But I'm not sure.
I guess I am most curious to know if a hunter/farmer type person would have been able to carry such a firelock around the Ohio River in the 1790's or thereabouts (without the use of a time machine) ?
WJ

 

NO

:sorry:

 

[weirdjack]

NO :sorry:

Uh okay....thanks?
Can you elaborate on this "no" any? Like perhaps specific dates and regions this style rifle was found?
Understand, over the years I have seen an abundance of conflicting info on iron mounted southern styles. If you have some specific information regarding the "no", it would be a whole lot more helpful.
WJ

 

[Donny]

One thing about the Dixie gun, it has the correct lock shape for the time period and location. The guys who write books on this stuff say after studying hundreds of the old southern rifles, " I have not seen one Tenn or S. Mtn gun with an original germanic style lock" ...Tenn and southern kits are sold today with the incorrect silar lock, ... the rounded back lockplate (English)(or round with a little tit) was in use before so.mtn style started up. I am no expert, but this is what they say. ::

 

[amccall]

Hey Jack, I was looking on the Dixie web page and noticed the style of gun that you have. It looks like a poor boy style gun, the kind of rifle I have grown to appreciate more as I get into this hobby. The next gun I want to build is going to be more like a farmer would have. Early rustic arms has something like I want to build called a barn gun.
I am interested in the replies that you get because I have wondered also what kind of guns were around for the average person in that period.
Also have you seen rifles that are in Lodi at the log cabin? They seem to have a number of Ohio made guns. I was wondering if any match your style of rifle. eace:

 

[weirdjack]

Hi He-Bear! I looked for you and Snake-Eyes at the club Saturday. I was the only person shooting then.:winking: It was lovely with all the fresh snow. Easy for working on patching and lubes since the patches just lay all nice on the snow.
I didn't see any last week at the Log Cabin Shop that matched the Dixie. The Dixie looks a lot like a Bean rifle. I read Bean moved his gunmaking to what would be the eastern Tennessee area in the late 1700's...1792 or so maybe? So when did he or others begin to make this general shape and style? 1794? 1800? 1810? 1815? 1820? 2005?
I saw that Early Rustic Arms "barn gun" online....cool. I've lately been looking at an iron mounted TVM early Virginia style. I like plain functional beauty personally.
I can always pick up my cut-down Navy Arms 1763 Charleville I suppose to be "PC" for the post Rev Ohio settling boom. At least I know it is good for southern Ohio turkeys. I found that out on a "trek" (although then the term "trek" involved Capt. Kirk) in 1979 and we feasted on turkey that evening in a cave camp.
But I was hoping some folks here might be able to share some more data and dates for southern types shaped like the Dixie Tennessee.
WJ

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm afraid 1790's is much too early for Dixie's Tennessee Rifle. That pattern is more of an 1840's to 1850's era, or even later.

Both Joseph Ruckman (Recreating the American Longhunter) and Richard LaCrosse, Jr. (The Frontier Rifleman) are pretty adamant that there was no such thing as a "Barn Gun" or a "Shimmel Rifle" on the frontiers of 1740 to 1790. You were spending more than half of the price on the barrel, so the carving and engraving was advertisement for the makers. Asking for a rifle without a butt-plate would be like asking GM to sell you an unpainted Cadillac. They just won't do it. They don't want their good name and reputation hurt. It wasn't until after the War of 1812 (and a hard recession) that the country became utilitarian, and even then most manufactured articles had embellishment.

Now, that's not to say some frontier gunsmith didn't cobble together some parts to get a rifle into his or someone's else's hands. The word "always" is seldom used in firearms history. I tried to find reference to an iron-mounted Pennsylvania rifle from the 1780's to 1790's and the words "unusual" and "infrequently" pop up everywhere.

There were apparantly "Early Virginia" iron-mounted rifles which I see dated as 1750 to 1780, but I don't have a definate reference on that (and the ones I've seen "reproduced" more resemble a Lancaster style stock architecture.

 

[Rat]

We have a very old rifle that's come down through the family, looks very much like the "Tennessee" and "Poor Boy" rifles. The stock is made from Oak, has a brass butt plate, and German silver trigger guard. No other trim. Double set triggers. About .38-39" calibre. It was indeed owned/used by farmers, and traveled by wagon train from the east to Idaho. (Idaho territory at that time) It missed joining the Donner Party by two weeks.

Who is this "Bean". This rifle has "PB" engraved on the top barrel flat, but I've never been able to link it to a maker.

Rat

 

Bean is not a single maker but a family of gunbuilders that span 100 years of development.

William Bean entered TN in 1768-69 claiming the title of "first settler" in the state. He was a blacksmith and gunbuilder, but none of his work survives.

He fathered several boys that carried on the trade and spread the family through the state.

The family is given the honor of credit for development of the long slinder iron mounted southern mountain rifle.

Lolipop tangs, banana patchboxes deeply browned barrels and black lacquer finishes were dominant. Very diferent school from the PA rifles, sort of the assualt rifle of their time!

Some of the best photos available are in Foxfire 5 (that's the one that is always gone from the library collection). This issue of the foxfire series is a must have book for ML shooters. Do not worry about missing any details due to the B&W photos, the Bean guns are all B&W.

Wierd Jack, if you closely study photos of origional guns from all angles you will see in one glance the diferences between the Dixie gun and any gun that would have existed in PA before 1800.

There are more diference than just shape of the guard, shape of the lockplate etc. There are also diferences in thickness of the butt at the plate, wrist, lockpanels and forend. Diferent profile for swamping of the barrel. The archecture is totally seperate as a class of firearm, as much different as a jagger and a fowler.

Use of this gun for accurate reenactment purposes would be similar to taking an AK47 to a WWI reenactment. There is actually less time span between WWI and the AK than between the two design schools we are discussing.

It appears that there were two schools of design that sprang from the German tradition. The northern and southern german settlements swaped tradesmen frequently. In the south they blended with and absorbed from other cultures, in PA they remained more German in heritage.

The real kick is studying the development of the "poorboy" in the south and the "barn gun" in PA. It's like the two kids that went to different schools together!

The Dixie guns make pretty good shooters, they just are not "correct" for for the time you have stated.

 

[weirdjack]

Ahhhhh....now that is more like it! More informative then a "no"....... THANKS!
The Dixie Tennessee is an enjoyable gun to shoot. But I suppose I'll have to work a little more with the Charleville now. My old Navy Arms 1763 is quite dependable, just not as economical for target practice.
WJ