Custom rifles vs. factory stuff?

[mark davidson]

I know I have worried you guys to death for a week for info here and it has been great and informative and kind of you to share. One more question today: What about custom muzzle loaders? I am trying hard to figure out what kind of cool custom gun to buy or have built. I have two renowned makers here very close to my home with decades of experience. My new hesitation is this: Are custom guns really that much better than my factory TC Hawken 50? What makes a custom gun a thousand dollars worth of better than the factory stuff? I am a performance oriented kind of guy and I want to know what I am really getting before I shell out the hard earned chips. Are most of you die-hards here shooting factory guns or custom guns? Please share and advise and humor a newbie one more time today.

 

[Black Hand]

Are custom guns really that much better than my factory TC Hawken 50? What makes a custom gun a thousand dollars worth of better than the factory stuff?

Absolutely!!!!! While some factory guns do work quite well, the performance of the components of custom guns is far superior, leading to even better performance. The materials are of a much higher quality, the locks are finely tuned with properly hardened components, the fit and finish are far superior to factory guns, etc. I also started with a Cabelas Hawken that shot quite well and didn't give it much thought. However, once I got around people with custom guns and got a chance to handle and shoot them, the differences were noteworthy. I finally broke down and ordered a Chambers kit, built it, and am extremely happy I did. The rifle shot fantastic right off the bench, no fiddling, tuning, or tweaking was needed. If you can afford it, buy, have built, or build your own custom gun. As with everything, carefully examine the suppliers, as some are better than others....Caveat Emptor.

Just think of it this way: A factory car (VW, Nissan, etc) and a custom car (Ferrari, Porsche) both drive and will get you to your destination. However, they way they perform is completely different.

 

[nchawkeye]

[/quote]Just think of it this way: A factory car (VW, Nissan, etc) and a custom car (Ferrari, Porsche) both drive and will get you to your destination. However, they way they perform is completely different.[/quote]

Exactly...Either one will put your balls where they are going...Custom just does it with more style...

 

[Black Hand]

Exactly...Either one will put your balls where they are going...Custom just does it with more style...

It is something more than style......They just work better and smoother, resulting in better shooting. Of course, a part of this depends on who is holding the gun and the time spent learning to shoot it.

The high end/custom stuff is not for everyone. It depends on how much you wish to invest in this hobby. For some folks, "good enough" is fine. For others (like myself), we like to take it a bit further....Just my personal opinion.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Can you buy a suit off the rack that fits as well as one tailored to you? A gunsmith will fit a rifle to you. I can look at a target, close my eyes and draw up Cherry Girl and the sights will be on target. Sometimes when plinking I'll roll a can by firing off snap-shots in a second. That's pretty good for a 9 pound flintlock with a 44" barrel.

Like NC Hawkeye suggested: my Jetta turbo is faster than a Mercedes, has more trunk room than a Ferrari and uses half the gas of a Hummer. So is it better than all three?

When I sit out on a stump in the woods and wait out a deer I admire the carving, engraving and figure in the wood. It's a pleasure to hunt with a work of art.

And when I can sit my butt down and rest my elbows on my knees I can throw groups like these without wiping between shots or needing a short-starter with my .54 hunting load. Lower one is at 25 yards and the right one is at 50 yards. (those are 4" address labels)

 

[mark davidson]

Well, opinions is exactly what I am looking for. I have two Black Widow bows, one a recurve and one longbow. One was nearly a grand and the other just over a grand. I don't have a lot of money but I like top notch tools for my passion, hunting. I just noticed so many here discussion the Lyman guns and the TCs and the Pedersolis and the like and I have not heard or read that much mention of custom guns. It made me wonder if I might be barking up the wrong tree with my obsession with a custom gun. More expensive does not always mean BETTER. However if the custom guns really do perform that much better and more reliably then that is just exactly what I intend to have. Keep the advice coming; I am new and all ears!

 

[Black Hand]

I just noticed so many here discussion the Lyman guns and the TCs and the Pedersolis and the like and I have not heard or read that much mention of custom guns.

These are readily available, affordable guns for most folks. They work quite well (well most of them do). It seems that the higher price keeps people from buying the higher end stuff.

For me it was more of a passion for the actual article and historical accuracy that led me to get the "real thing". But for me, this hobby is more of an actual life-style. "Good enough" was not good enough for me....

You won't regret getting a higher end/custom gun. And if you decide it is not for you, you can always sell it, and probably still come out ahead.

 

[nchawkeye]

I've never owned a factory built muzzleloader...Never owned a percussion...Bought my first in '77...Walked into Bob Watt's store down in Stone Mt, GA...Asked about a gun he had on the rack, as already mentioned, he handed me the gun, told me to close my eyes and sight down the barrel...When I opened they I was looking down the sights...Still have that one and made another in '88...

They become an extension of you and they are works of art with a rich history behind them...The fact that a properly made muzzleloader is both accurate and a fine hunting tool just adds to the joy of owning and using one...

 

[mark davidson]

BH, Good points you make. I am not quite to the "life style" point with MLers yet but I am a traditionalist in my hunting pursuits. I use only recurve and longbows for archery for nearly 20 years now. Center fire rifles are all old 98 Mausers or O3A3 Springfields. Handguns are big bore Bisley .45 colts or 1911s. The black powder thing has bitten me hard. A BP rifle may well become my main go-to rifle for all gun hunting other than archery. Therefore I want a really good one that will take hundreds of days in the field and do the job. Sounds like a good custom might be the best money spent in the long run. One specific question though, do you think that customs are more important in flintlock than in percussion or would you rate the importance of a custom rifle about the same for either?

 

[shortbow]

Mark, definitely sounds to me as though you need the custom guns, given your current arsenal and attitudes. Just hope as you get into this, you lay down those plastic bows and get or buy NA style self-bows. :rotf:

 

[mark davidson]

Well, I have heard Widows called plywood but never "plastic." I am for sure not anywhere near the self-bow point. I do have two authentic self bows made with stone tools by a primitive tribe(the Kubo) in New Guinea(sp?). I do not hunt with them but I got them from the father of a missionary who went over there and brought them back for me. I suppose you are right; given my attitudes about stuff, I probably should get a custom muzzle loader....maybe two...one percussion and one flintlock!! :wink:

 

[Black Hand]

I can see that obsessed, crazy look from here. Welcome to my obsession!

 

[wvbuckbuster]

NOW YOUR TALKING! I STARTED WITH AN OLD DB SHOTGUN WHEN A TEENAGER. BOUGHT A CVA KIT BIG BORE MT. RIFLE. HAD A .40 BUILT VIRGINIA STYLE(WAS CAP LATER CONVERTED TO FLINT) THEN GOT A .50 LANCASTER. THIS YEAR BOUGHT CUSTOM FLINT .54 ENGLISH SPORTING RIFLE. YOU SEE THE PROGRESSION. FACTORY WORKS. IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT BUY OR BUILD CUSTOM. IT CAN BE MADE TO FIT YOU. PICK THE STYLE, CALIBER, EVERYTHING THAT SUITS YOU. LIKE BUYING A CAR GET THE FEATURES YOU WANT AND CAN PAY FOR. YOU WON'T REGRETT IT.

 

[Harddog]

Mark,

If you buy a custom made rifle you can almost always get your money back in years to come. I don't know of any factory rifle that is as good of an investment as a custom made rifle.

Randy Hedden

 

[ryoung14]

Mark,
I'd say that if you have to ask, you're not ready for a custom yet. Get some experience. Find out whether you like shooting roundballs or conicals; Hawkens or Kentucky's or military style muskets; smoothbore or rifled; large caliber or small; flint or percussion. There's a world of BP shooting to be sampled. If you spend a wad of money on a custom, you'll be, to some extent, locked in. Give it some time and shoot factory stuff for awhile. Maybe try to build a kit on your own.

Folks here will freely suggest what they like; but none of us can know what you will prefer long term. If you're careful about what you pay and take care of the factory guns while you have them, you won't lose much when you sell. Take advantage of the time to find out what you like before spending big $.

Committing to a custom before having determined what you're looking for is like marrying the first pretty girl that comes along. Like marriage, a custom is a worthwhile goal, but not something to be hurried into.
FWIW
Bob

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I've never owned a factory built muzzleloader...Never owned a percussion..

I wish I oculd say that. My first rifle was an Petro 1803 Harpers Ferry. It was a nightmare.

Then I built one from Jess Melot. After carrrying that two ton stick aorund for many years. I made a nice thin light one last year.

I can never own or shoot anything else.

The balance and feel, and the way it shoots, is what I always thought a rifle should shoot like.
I prefer it to my bullet firing modern stuff.

 

[Zonie]

I think short_start hit the nail on the head.

Custom built guns are great but due to their expense their not something a person can afford to go out and buy every year.

Learn by using a good factory built gun or two and decide exactly what you want from a custom before finally deciding to order one from a builder.

Also, be aware that a good builder will probably have a backlog and it may take over a year (or more) for you to get a custom gun built to your requirements.

Also be aware that although some people have had very good luck with their parts, many will tell you that not all of the custom gun parts are equal.
For instance, I've had very good luck with the L&R locks I've used but some people wouldn't own one if you gave it to them. The same can be said for a few other locks, set triggers and barrels.

Good Luck

 

[Flintlock58]

I still shoot factory and I have two customs, a 58 and an 11 ga smoothie. Built by Jackie Brown so they didnt cost what other custom guns do. I am happy with them but they are not top of the line that the guys are talking about here. I agree that you should determine what you want by trial and error on some factory stuff first. In fact I am thinking of trying an accusporter flinter by RMC. This rifle is a mix of flint and modern technology. A good place in my opinion to start. But then I like shooting everything I own and though I prefer to shoot my flinters, I am not of the traditionalist only camp. Good luck and have fun on the road to your custom gun!

 

[bart_anastasi]

If you are new to this and shooting percussion or flint every time you shoot, the gun is going to go bang (if you do your part).

A good rifle like a T/C or other top quality factory gun will perform well for a long time (forever).

There is a difference between a top quality factory gun and a (our's is cheaper brand).

There are so many different styles of rifle and levels of finish and equipment you could look for a year before you find something that you really think perfect. And if you are going Custom you might want to take your time deciding on a rifle type).


And having a gun that fits and was made for you is OK and point ability from a gun made for you is nice if you have the bucks. But will you kill more game with it at 50 to 100 yards? IMHO no.

If you know a man with a rep building guns talk to him and ask if he works on stocks. A good builder could also adjust the stock/fit for you on a factory gun. Who knows you might impress the builder with your smarts as a savy buyer.

One of our local makers had one of his Black Walnut trees almost crush his house. He chain sawed the thing up and uses it now to make stocks for folks. He also works on existing stocks adding bits and pieces and such when needed.